Please help with possible AVIAN BOTULISM (updated)

6pm

I'm not sure what to do! This is my first time with chickens and my first emergency

I've had this chick (and 14 hatchmates) for 9 wks. This one is a black laced red wyandotte (with the incorrect single comb). I'm not sure if it's a roo or a hen, but I think roo so I'll refer to it as a him. Anyway, earlier while I was observing them, this chick (Copper) was holding his right wing down and out. The other looked kinda out too so I thought maybe he was hot (I'm in Dallas, TX and it was in the high 90s today, but they have a LOT of shade). Anyway, now that I think about it he wasn't panting and none of the other chicks were acting all that hot.

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)
black laced red wyandotte, 9wks, not sure the weight, but looks healthy

2) What is the behavior, exactly.
now: lethargic, head all the way down, loose neck, holding right wing totally loose
earlier: held right wing out and down, but otherwise seemed within normal range

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?
20 min for the serious symptoms

4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?
no

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
I felt the wings to try to determine a difference (couldn't tell, but muscles were a little twitchy at base of R wing)
bird was calm (almost fatalistic) this bird doesn't usually allow touching

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
might have fallen off a roost (?)

7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
was eating right before I noticed head staying down
H and H organic (soy free whole grain mix) chick starter with some ultrakibble mixed in 1 UK: 10 chick starter that was fermented since yesterday in some acv and water (I am familiar with fermenting for my family, BTW, but just started for them 2 days ago)

8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
not sure (update: very watery)

9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
just palpating i have no idea what to do
i tried to feel his crop, but couldn't feel anything even though I know he'd just eaten a few bites at least
i could wrap the body to hold wing down, but might stress bird and might not help (would separate from others)

10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
treat here or mercy kill the bird
especially if Copper is in fact a rooster, we were going to eat him eventually (but he's awfully small still!)
i'd rather him not suffer a lot, but i also don't want to kill him if this is something I can easily help
also, I have no idea if there is a chance this is contagious or could hurt us upon eating him

11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
I went back with a camera and he is laying down so I couldn't really get a pic of the wing position, but this picture is so pitiful and might help you see something I don't know to look for...



12) Describe the housing/bedding in use
They have a 6'x6'x5' hen house with roosts and pine shavings on the floor
They also have an 8'x9'x8' aviary with roosts at various heights (highest probably ~3.5 ft) the ground has collected dry leaf litter, but might have a hard spot to land if the chicks had been scratching around a lot
They also have daytime access to 15'x30' yard area (the pictures were taken in the yard just under the edge of the house)


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is there anything you would do for a damaged wing? Would he hold his head down like this out of pain or could something else be wrong? [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]update: 7pm[/FONT]

I went back out to check on Copper after posting and I snapped a few more pictures and also saw him squirt almost all water poo.




he lifted his head a little for this second pic

he is walking around really slowly with his head down and wings hanging

he was still able to balance on one foot and stretch the other leg out behind him (not sure if that info helps...)

still no other chicks exhibiting any symptoms

please let me know if this is within the normal range for a hurt wing, general discomfort, ???

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update: 12am

Copper made it into the coop for the night (it's about 20" jump/hop/fly), but is not roosting. Head is still down.

I hope he's alive in the morning.

Please respond if you can think of anything I should research. Thank you!

anyone?

I think it's avian botulism (aka limberneck)

he's still able to stand, but walking is very uncoordinated and he's often stepping on his R wing, but left is limp, too, and neck is worst

I just went out and took him out of the hen house and brought him into a fresh large dog crate in the garage and he's drinking and eating. he drank water like he was dehydrated and then I gave him some egg yolk figuring it was the easiest to digest and I'm not so worried about him "getting a taste for them" right now. i also put a small bowl of dried chick starter and he's eating it. I hope he can digest even if his neck stays bent downward!

I can give sugar water in the morning if he's able to drink it (not sure if it'll help, but figured it probably wouldn't hurt, right?)

I am willing to nurse him (with fresh food and water and maybe some OTC vitamins) as long as he isn't in pain. right now he seems understandably freaked out, but is learning to trust me much more than ever before

please do weigh in if you have suggestions!

I don't think your bird has botulism. This is actually what it looks like when they have it:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/gallery/image/view/album/6135933/id/4675081/sort/display_order

It sounds very odd, what you are describing.

I end up telling this story a lot, so maybe it's not as weird as I thought it was at the time- I had a jersey giant chick suddenly act like she had crookneck, even though she was eating the same food as everyone else... after replaying the day's events when I found her, I reasoned that she had a good bump to the head and had some swelling. I looked online and found this guide: http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/Crookneck/Crookneck.html I made the choice to dose her w/ prednisone. And, whether right or wrong, she recovered.
Side note- I later had a hen come down with what I suspect was botulism. She started with a limp neck but it progressed until she was totally uncoordinated- I treated her w/ a molasses flush and supportive care and she made it.
Best of luck!

Thank you both for replying!!!

I couldn't get that link to work, Minniechickmama, but that's ok. You may be right about the botulism. Others have suggested Mareks (which of course made me worry about the whole little flock!).

TeamChaos, thank you for sharing your stories. I may never figure out what the problem really is but I did "flush" his system late last night (I used epsom salts) and have made sure that he's eating and drinking.

Whatever it is, he is MUCH better this evening. Even this morning his neck was still pretty limp, but after a day of rest and pampering with easy to digest foods, vitamins, and sugar water he is doing much better. His head is held normally and he is no longer stepping on his R wing. The R wing is still held further down than the right and his walking is not totally normal, but he came out of the crate and walked around the garage exploring earlier. When I squatted down nearby to offer him a snack, he sized me up and then flew/jumped up onto my back/shoulder!! I was really happy that he was that perky, but not quite sure how to get him off b/c I couldn't reach him I've added a low roost in the crate for tonight and will keep him isolated for a few more days. Considering I had decided earlier today to put him out of his misery...I'm thrilled.

Here is that picture. I never noticed a wing drop or anything like that. I did do the molasses and epsom salts flush and this one recovered, good as new.
But I will say this, doing a flush like that is to remove toxins. So, if your little guy is fighting with some kind of other toxin, a flush can only help, I would think.


I am glad to hear he has perked up.

I am just having this problem with 5 week old silkie X banti that looks just like your in the pic there Minnie (if you know her breed, I would love to know as my friend just bought a handful of mixed bantis and she doesnt know their breed, but the mother of our brood looked much the same!) I guess my dad noticed last night that one of the chicks legs seemed a little wobbly as we were bringing them in for the night (this week they will be introduced to their own coop as they are just getting big enough) , but thought nothing of it. This morning I brought the chicks out side and all but one jumped out and the I had thought the remaining little peep was gone because he was on his back..not moving and his head was tucked underneath him. once i scooped him up he came too and seemed coherent. I put him down and he stumbled, and is dragging his right leg, and his left is seeming to get worse. he puts his head between his leg and walks backwards, or flops on to his side or back. when he stops trying to walk and hunkers down, he eats and drinks fine. he didnt seem to have a problem drinking epsom salt water either..he downd a half ounce of 2 tsp/cup solution pretty readily, as my first reaction was botulism as they do get fed scraps regularily, and peck around beside our laying hens run. at night they have been sleeping in a shaving lined tote, but i think they have outgrown it in their rapid growth. i'm considering head injury could be the problem..all the other birds seem fine. going to give him some molasses water and then later some vitamins and electrolytes, and hope for the best!

Curious...any other updates on Copper?

any more tips would be greatly appreciated


Jolly Rancher

Jolly Rancher, poor little birdie!

My update on Copper is good, I guess. Diagnosis was unsure and I'm still not sure what to do. Copper's wings and neck looked normal after my last update, but his legs seemed shaky. The next day even his little toes seemed kinda paralyzed and unable to spread out, but ever since then he has been getting better and better coordination-wise. I've kept him isolated. I feel badly that he's lonely, but I am still not sure if it's Mareks. A few sites I found said that Mareks has so many different manifestations, but that one is temporary paralysis and then they seem fine...then they typically die about a month later of the internal tumors. I am afraid to put him back with the others.

The other 14 chicks don't show symptoms. To me this either points toward botulism OR somehow they are all resistant to Mareks??? I have no idea.

Poor Copper gets to spend time with us and walking around and sunning in the grass a few times a day, but I need to decide if he can go back with the others. Ideas?

If it is Mareks, don't expect him to live, but it doesn't sound like it to me.

For both of your birds, I would give PolyViSol baby drop without iron, a couple times of day. Make sure they are in enough space or isolated and have plenty of food and fresh water.

The hen I showed in the above picture is a Golden Pencilled Hamburg. They are a standard breed but on the small side, but I believe they come in bantam, which would have to be really small!

I had one cockerel last year that had botulism also, same breed and I lost him.

For either bird, if you do the flush with epsom salts or molasses, it should help if it is toxin based problem. However, there are a number of other possibilities that may cause these problems. It could be that a bird could have degenerative or genetic issue that doesn't manifest itself until they are weeks or months old. You do the best you can to try and make them comfortable and medicate if necessary. I hope they pull through, it sounds like Copper is doing better. As long as they stay perky and show signs of activity, you can hope that will recover. Just know, you may not find out what the cause is, so just stay a mystery.

Good luck!
Minnie