Where is the Silver Lacing in Hackles Coming From?

Since this section is entitled genetics, I am asking the question here. This almost 16 week old cockerel is out of a single factor barred male (Delaware x Stukel line Barred Plymouth Rock) over a Blue Plymouth Rock hen, so he's 3/4 Plymouth Rock, though two color varieties, and 1/4 Delaware. I got several solid black pullets from that cross as well. I didn't expect this much silver/white on this male. Is this hackle and wing color coming from the Delaware part of the sire or is it coming from the predominant silver that the sire has, or can we know? I will not be making this cross again, but I did not expect this much off color, at least not to this extent. Just want the answer to tuck away for future reference.

The subject male:





The sire of this male:

Hi Speckledhen,
I believe the lacing on the hackle is coming from the Delaware. The Delaware is basically
a Light Sussex color with the barring gene added. eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co plus the barring gene.
The lacing comes when the Columbian gene restricts the black to the birds extremities.
Apparently in this bird, the bird has picked that up but without the barring gene. So it is the effect
of the Columbian gene on that hackle which is causing the silver lacing on the hackle feathers.
I do wonder what the hackle would have looked like had the Columbian gene not been present.
Would it still even be black? Because we know the Columbian gene is what is pushing the black
into the hackle( body extremity) as well as causing the silver lacing on the hackle feathers.
If this bird were carrying 2 copies of Co then it would look like a Light Sussex. So maybe it is
only carrying one copy?
It's really kinda a fetching color.
Best,
Karen

3riverschick said:

Hi Speckledhen,
I believe the lacing on the hackle is coming from the Delaware. The Delaware is basically
a Light Sussex color with the barring gene added. eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co plus the barring gene.
The lacing comes when the Columbian gene restricts the black to the birds extremities.
Apparently in this bird, the bird has picked that up but without the barring gene. So it is the effect
of the Columbian gene on that hackle which is causing the silver lacing on the hackle feathers.
I do wonder what the hackle would have looked like had the Columbian gene not been present.
Would it still even be black? Because we know the Columbian gene is what is pushing the black
into the hackle( body extremity) as well as causing the silver lacing on the hackle feathers.
If this bird were carrying 2 copies of Co then it would look like a Light Sussex. So maybe it is
only carrying one copy?
It's really kinda a fetching color.

Best,
Karen

Click to expand...

Thanks, Karen, that does make sense about the Columbian gene from his grandpa Isaac. I figured it probably came from his Delaware ancestry, but I'm a dolt when it comes to some of this stuff so figured I'd ask folks who knew more than I. I really was surprised when he got so much lacing. I expected maybe some streaks of off color here and there, but not this. Never had a black bird with white hackles.

I do agree, it's a pretty cool coloration on this guy. I might keep him to see what he'd throw when bred back to a black pullet if he wasn't so small bodied with an almost feminine, refined head, obviously taking after his mother, the Blue Rock, rather than his sire. Maverick has a wonderful temperament so he'd make someone a great backyard flock rooster for someone for whom that trait is paramount.

3riverschick said:

Hi Speckledhen,
I believe the lacing on the hackle is coming from the Delaware. The Delaware is basically
a Light Sussex color with the barring gene added. eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co plus the barring gene.
The lacing comes when the Columbian gene restricts the black to the birds extremities.
Apparently in this bird, the bird has picked that up but without the barring gene. So it is the effect
of the Columbian gene on that hackle which is causing the silver lacing on the hackle feathers.
I do wonder what the hackle would have looked like had the Columbian gene not been present.
Would it still even be black? Because we know the Columbian gene is what is pushing the black
into the hackle( body extremity) as well as causing the silver lacing on the hackle feathers.
If this bird were carrying 2 copies of Co then it would look like a Light Sussex. So maybe it is
only carrying one copy?
It's really kinda a fetching color.

Best,
Karen

Click to expand...

ok be ready for a Long genetic answer coming your way..

speckledhen said:

Since this section is entitled genetics, I am asking the question here. This almost 16 week old cockerel is out of a single factor barred male (Delaware x Stukel line Barred Plymouth Rock) over a Blue Plymouth Rock hen, so he's 3/4 Plymouth Rock, though two color varieties, and 1/4 Delaware. I got several solid black pullets from that cross as well. I didn't expect this much silver/white on this male. Is this hackle and wing color coming from the Delaware part of the sire or is it coming from the predominant silver that the sire has, or can we know? I will not be making this cross again, but I did not expect this much off color, at least not to this extent. Just want the answer to tuck away for future reference.

The subject male:





The sire of this male:

Click to expand...

I've seen a male similar to the Sire from a BR and Birchen Marans crossing. I don't have a picture of him, cuz I didn't keep him but here's the roo. I've been working to get the pattern in to the hens and also to get the copper out. I've learned I have to hatch a lot of chicks so that's the plan when things with DW are over or at least calm down.

nicalandia said:

ok be ready for a Long genetic answer coming your way..

Click to expand...

uh oh.






Tim, I like the looks of your rooster.

3riverschick said:

The Delaware is basically
a Light Sussex color with the barring gene added. eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co plus the barring gene.
The lacing comes when the Columbian gene restricts the black to the birds extremities.
Apparently in this bird, the bird has picked that up but without the barring gene. So it is the effect
of the Columbian gene on that hackle which is causing the silver lacing on the hackle feathers.

Karen

Click to expand...

you are correct to assume that Delaware genetic make up is eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co B/B but its not co that is producing the lacing on the hackle, Co does not have that effect on Extended black birds, whats causing this is the combined effect of E/eWh Co/co+ on that cockerel

3riverschick said:

I do wonder what the hackle would have looked like had the Columbian gene not been present.

Karen

Click to expand...

most E/eWh males I have seen also show some degree of gold/silver leakage on the hackle

3riverschick said:

.
If this bird were carrying 2 copies of Co then it would look like a Light Sussex.

Click to expand...

homozygous columbian will not turn E/eWh birds into a fully restricted birds like light sussex, the most it will do is restrict the breast area,

speckledhen said:

The subject male:

Click to expand...

This rooster looks Birchen to me.. but E/eWh and Co/co+ can do that to roosters, the reason this cockerel does NOT looks fully Birchen is because birchen cockerels at this stage does not look fully birchen yet, they diplay some hackle gold/silver tones, and as your cockerel is a Birchen look alike(E/ER does that) they have a type of lacing on the hackle….
Birchen based cockerel(Maran)

speckledhen said:

The sire of this male:

Click to expand...

His father also looked like Birchen Barred rooster, just as you would expect a barred E/eWh Co/co+ S/S B/b+ rooster would look,

Pure Birche ER/ER S/S B/B roosters(Silver cuckoo Maran)




Now look at a genetic mirror image of your rooster(well kind of) this is a Black Sexlink rooster, his genetic make up is E/eWh Co/co+ S/s+(Lemon/golden hue instead of Silver) B/b+

had this Sexlinked rooter be pure for S/S he would have looked like your E/eWh S/S Co/co+ sire




so basically whats going on is, your Extended black bird is not capable of showing its self black plumage because of heterozygosity of E/eWh in this case AND/OR C/co+ affecting its expression making it look like a Birchen bird instead(like most birchen maran cockerels look at that age)


Now a Birchen Maran Pair showing their hackel lacing

Oops, thanks nicalandia. My mistake was in presuming the bird was eWh/ eWh.
Best,
Karen

Oo0o0, I have one for you guys.
I need to get a better picture of her.

nicalandia said:

you are correct to assume that Delaware genetic make up is eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co B/B but its not co that is producing the lacing on the hackle, Co does not have that effect on Extended black birds, whats causing this is the combined effect of E/eWh Co/co+ on that cockerel


most E/eWh males I have seen also show some degree of gold/silver leakage on the hackle



homozygous columbian will not turn E/eWh birds into a fully restricted birds like light sussex, the most it will do is restrict the breast area,




This rooster looks Birchen to me.. but E/eWh and Co/co+ can do that to roosters, the reason this cockerel does NOT looks fully Birchen is because birchen cockerels at this stage does not look fully birchen yet, they diplay some hackle gold/silver tones, and as your cockerel is a Birchen look alike(E/ER does that) they have a type of lacing on the hackle….
Birchen based cockerel(Maran)



His father also looked like Birchen Barred rooster, just as you would expect a barred E/eWh Co/co+ S/S B/b+ rooster would look,

Pure Birche ER/ER S/S B/B roosters(Silver cuckoo Maran)




Now look at a genetic mirror image of your rooster(well kind of) this is a Black Sexlink rooster, his genetic make up is E/eWh Co/co+ S/s+(Lemon/golden hue instead of Silver) B/b+

had this Sexlinked rooter be pure for S/S he would have looked like your E/eWh S/S Co/co+ sire

Click to expand...

I am working to get my Birchen hens that nice. I had another male but gave him away. While he was nicer than his Dad he was meaner than second skimmings. Came at me to many times. The folks who took him knew ahead of time but seems unconcerned even after he slammed the husband in the back.