Orpington color genetics

[Kali_]

Ok folks, so I have some fun questions that need answered that I can't seem to find anywhere. Need to know possibilities of these pairings of orpington colors:

Isabel cuckoo x buff
isabel cuckoo x lavender
isabel cuckoo x crele (im pretty sure it's crele and isabels produced...but doesn't hurt to ask!)
crele x lavender (I think I got a lav cuckoo from this pairing accidentally last year?)
crele x black (got a black cuckoo from this also accidental pairing I think?)
crele x buff (I paired on purpose, got one buff cuckoo out of maybe 20 chicks which turned out white)
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I would love in depth answers with all the genetics stuff included. I'm a biology nut and would love to read it! Also need this info for my upcoming breeding season!!!

 

[Auntiejessi3]

@ColtHandorf can answer all your questions and has beautiful orps!

 

[Auntiejessi3]

Ooo, or @nicalandia

 

[ColtHandorf]

@ColtHandorf can answer all your questions and has beautiful orps!

Why thank you, but that may be a bit over my head. I'll tag @Amer and @The Moonshiner to see what they think while I'm using the calculator...

Isabel cuckoo x buff

isabel cuckoo x lavender

isabel cuckoo x crele (im pretty sure it's crele and isabels produced...but doesn't hurt to ask!)

crele x lavender (I think I got a lav cuckoo from this pairing accidentally last year?)

Unless the Crele Rooster you used is carrying the Lavender gene (so split to Lavender) you couldn't get a Lavender Cuckoo.

crele x black (got a black cuckoo from this also accidental pairing I think?)

crele x buff (I paired on purpose, got one buff cuckoo out of maybe 20 chicks which turned out white)

I don't know how you could have gotten a White bird unless both parents are split to Recessive White, which is possible. But I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.

Now I will say this, there are multiple ways in which Orpingtons breeders have created Crele and Isabel Creles, etc. As they are not accepted into any SOP there's also a personal preference that comes to play in how breeders select their birds. Just because something looks Crele doesn't mean it is genetically. This is really obvious when you start bringing in different bloodlines. All that to say just because the calculator is assigning certain genes to parents does not mean that the offspring will come out the way they should if different genetic combinations were used to create a faux Crele if you will.

 

[Kali_]

Why thank you, but that may be a bit over my head. I'll tag @Amer and @The Moonshiner to see what they think while I'm using the calculator...

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Unless the Crele Rooster you used is carrying the Lavender gene (so split to Lavender) you couldn't get a Lavender Cuckoo.

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I don't know how you could have gotten a White bird unless both parents are split to Recessive White, which is possible. But I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.

Now I will say this, there are multiple ways in which Orpingtons breeders have created Crele and Isabel Creles, etc. As they are not accepted into any SOP there's also a personal preference that comes to play in how breeders select their birds. Just because something looks Crele doesn't mean it is genetically. This is really obvious when you start bringing in different bloodlines. All that to say just because the calculator is assigning certain genes to parents does not mean that the offspring will come out the way they should if different genetic combinations were used to create a faux Crele if you will.

The crele roo I used over the buff hen (who is a hatchery bird) was not the best example of a crele rooster. He was single barred with HEAVY red. So those combining factors are probably why I got white. He very well could've covered a different hen in that pen and I got those whites from her instead. My pens were not very secure at that time, so some hen could've jumped over. The crele roo I used last year and ended up with the lavender cuckoo somehow could've been split to isabel/lavender, the line I mainly have carries it from what she told me. The only other rooster I had in that pen before I separated was a black split to lavender. So who knows, life finds a way I guess, lol. I just wanted to see what I could throw together for experiments at the end of my big hatching season.

 

[Amer]

Why thank you, but that may be a bit over my head. I'll tag @Amer and @The Moonshiner to see what they think while I'm using the calculator...

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Unless the Crele Rooster you used is carrying the Lavender gene (so split to Lavender) you couldn't get a Lavender Cuckoo.

View attachment 2993654View attachment 2993655

View attachment 2993657View attachment 2993658
I don't know how you could have gotten a White bird unless both parents are split to Recessive White, which is possible. But I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.

Now I will say this, there are multiple ways in which Orpingtons breeders have created Crele and Isabel Creles, etc. As they are not accepted into any SOP there's also a personal preference that comes to play in how breeders select their birds. Just because something looks Crele doesn't mean it is genetically. This is really obvious when you start bringing in different bloodlines. All that to say just because the calculator is assigning certain genes to parents does not mean that the offspring will come out the way they should if different genetic combinations were used to create a faux Crele if you will.

Ok, so these are all right except that isabel cuckoo in orpingtons is duckwing based, not black based. So isabel cuckooxbuff
e+/e+lav/lavB/B x e^wh/e^whCo/CoDb/DbDi/DiMh/Mh
= e^wh/e+Co/co+Db/db+Di/di+Mh/mh+Lav+/lavB/b+ This is basically resultant in black tailed buff cuckoo.

And the isabel cuckooxlavender
e+/e+lav/lavB/B x
E/Elav/lav
=
E/e+lavlavB/b leaky lavender barred

The opposite crossings with the dam being barred and the sire not are sexlinked. Male offspring are barred females aren’t.

 

[littleranchfarm]

@

Ooo, or @nicalandia

@ColtHandorf which parent colours do you need to breed Isabel offspring? I have an Isabel rooster but can’t seem to replicate Isabel

 

[ColtHandorf]

@Amer @The Moonshiner - I don't breed the variety because I'm not a fan of the mucked up genetics. Can either of you please help?