2 Hoop coop cattle panel questions

[affacat]

So, i have been researching hoop coops for a while now, but have 2 questions.

(Possibly worth noting, i am making a 'hoop run' to attach to a preexisting wood coop.)

1) I see everyone builds a wood frame (often with 2x6), then attaches the cattle panels to the wood frame. Is there any reason I can't just buy vinyl coated cattle panel and bury it a bit? Or stake it directly to the ground? I am already planning on attaching hardware cloth that will be buried, so i feel like the lumber is almost unnecessary... unless it is, for a reason I am not thinking of.

2) my plan will be much longer than most of the 12 or 16 footers.. maybe even double that (I don't think I would go past 32 foot). Will I need any vertical supports? Should I overlap each half a foot a so for extra support? Or is each panel sturdy enough without?

I don't mind buying the lumber and framing out a base if necessary, but I just keep thinking that since im already trenching hardware cloth that perhaps i dont need to, saving money and labor.

 

[3KillerBs]

The frame at the bottom is to hold the cattle panel in the arched position. I haven't worked them them personally, but I'm told that they are quite springy and will snap flat again if not firmly restrained.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So, i have been researching hoop coops for a while now, but have 2 questions.

(Possibly worth noting, i am making a 'hoop run' to attach to a preexisting wood coop.)

1) I see everyone builds a wood frame (often with 2x6), then attaches the cattle panels to the wood frame. Is there any reason I can't just buy vinyl coated cattle panel and bury it a bit? Or stake it directly to the ground? I am already planning on attaching hardware cloth that will be buried, so i feel like the lumber is almost unnecessary... unless it is, for a reason I am not thinking of.

2) my plan will be much longer than most of the 12 or 16 footers.. maybe even double that (I don't think I would go past 32 foot). Will I need any vertical supports? Should I overlap each half a foot a so for extra support? Or is each panel sturdy enough without?

I don't mind buying the lumber and framing out a base if necessary, but I just keep thinking that since im already trenching hardware cloth that perhaps i dont need to, saving money and labor.

Many use (or perhaps, used to use) hoop coops as mobile chicken tractors, owing to the light weight - so 2x6 framing was needed to keep the structure together during transport.

In my wanderings across the internet, I HAVE seen a number of fixed hoop coop/hoop run designs which are fixed in place using pieces of rebar driven into the ground. Honestly, not sure how thrilled I'd be about a bunch of short rebar stakes sticking up, and doubt the average person has (or wants to invest) in Hickey bars for bending their own steel, but you can buy rebar j hooks to use as stakes (don't need the pointed end - 3/8" par is small enough you can hammer it into almost any soil).

Typically, one end of the panel is secured using four stakes (more may be necessary, or longer, depending on your soils - sandy soils are particularly bad!) then the panel is gently bent into an arch and the other side secured. Typically, something heavy - like a few CMUs - are used to temporarily hold it in place while the stakes are secured.

I happen to have hickey bars, and sandy soils. I'd be using #3 rebar, just like those, but I'd be driving at least 2' into the ground, not a mere 12". Likely by purchasing 20' lengths of rebar, then using a cut off wheel in the circular saw to reduce them to 2 1/2' lengths before bending.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

as to the other questions, every hoop coop offering I've seen has some overlap, generally just a few inches, not a full 6, to ease attachment, and no, an arch is a remarkably strong structure, in a "willow" sort of way - if a load is placed against it, it will deform, but should spring back when the load is removed. Enough force to permanently deform a panel is (I imagine, I've not done it) very strong winds or repeat wind load over a long period of time, with some non-forgiving panel (metal/polycarbonate) attached to the arch, acting like a sail. A typical light duty tarp, I expect, will fail before the cattle panels are permanently bent - but that's ENTIRELY supposition on my part.

 

[aart]

an arch is a remarkably strong structure, in a "willow" sort of way - if a load is placed against it, it will deform, but should spring back when the load is removed.

Depends on how shallow the arch is.
And what kind of panels.....cattle panels are much less strong than hog panels due to larger rod spacing.

Is there any reason I can't just buy vinyl coated cattle panel and bury it a bit?

Yes. They don't make vinyl coated livestock panel(to my knowledge).

 

[affacat]

The frame at the bottom is to hold the cattle panel in the arched position. I haven't worked them them personally, but I'm told that they are quite springy and will snap flat again if not firmly restrained.

Thats what I was thinking too, which is why I was thinking stakes might work and be cheaper/easier. Simply put a T-post at every panel intersection, slightly overlap the panels, and connect them to the t-posts.

Since panels would share posts with their neighboring panel, 4 panels would only need 10 t posts. That's less than 50 bucks, no lumber, no staples, no nails, no washers, etc. (At least for the length, you'd still need an entrance at the end, etc)

Heck, i might even get away with only 8 (centers), since there will be hardware cloth connecting the ends from being loose.

I'd be trenching for the hardware cloth as well, so the panel would be snugly kept at the edges.

But I feel like I've seen so many videos and online pics with the wood frame that I feel like I am missing something obvious... or perhaps people were just copying each other and nobody branched out?

Maybe the fear is wind ripping it out of the ground if I put a cover on it?

 

[3KillerBs]

But I feel like I've seen so many videos and online pics with the wood frame that I feel like I am missing something obvious... or perhaps people were just copying each other and nobody branched out?

Maybe the fear is wind ripping it out of the ground if I put a cover on it?

Or they want a wood frame to keep the bedding from spilling through the wires, perhaps?

 

[21hens-incharge]

I like the wood frame for a couple reasons.
It gives structure preventing the spring out and sliding up that the panels are prone to do. It gives FAR more surface area to attach the panels and additional wire to. It keeps the run bedding in.

The panels come in 16' lengths. When arched to an 8' width the center is a bit over 6' tall allowing most adults to stand upright inside.

I do not think going double that width will allow for an arch since the panels are rather stiff. They would want to be straight so would form a peak. You would definitely need framing to keep that from wobbling around.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I read the OP as going longer than most, not wider, but yes - wider than the 8' used by most would definitely start creating more problems than it solved. Appreciate your experience.

 

[mowin]

Wooden frame just made it easier for me as I built mine in my shop. Also because where it was going, the ground isn't level and it was easier to level the frame and attach it to my coop.
Many dig a HC apron. I can't. Too many roots and rocks. I'd need a excavator to do that. Apron that extends out from the hoop 24" is just as effective. The Wooden frame makes it easy to attach the HC.
As far as support, yes you're going to need something to keep its shape, especially if you go longer. High winds will have an effect, more so if its tarped. Not sure if snow load is a issue where you live, but it definitely is for me.