2nd opinion - X-ray GI tract hen

[Peck-n-Poot]

Hi, I’m posting this to try to get a second opinion and another interpretation on x-rays of my hen.

My beloved pet hen was hospitalized at the vet for roughly 20 days while they were very stumped and unable to figure out what was going on. There she battled e.coli, 2 subsequent bacterial infections (likely from initial antibiotic) and crop stasis/ sour crop and fluid and gas filling her crop. Though there was improvement in symptoms at various points in time during her vet stay and seemed like things were headed in the right direction, the lingering issue is the crop is still not properly emptying and retaining fluid/gas or possibly refilling and a partial blockage of some sort in GI tract is suspected. A barium study was done with a series of X-rays throughout the day. The vet noted that the intestines look inflamed, and there is the barium illuminating in a tear drop shape with tiny tail that the vet says indicates a blockage. They are suspecting cancer. The vet also noted that the barium study X-rays look very different from the study that had been done for this same hen back in Jan when she presented with some similar symptoms but yet recovered in about a week (with injectable antibiotic and anti fungal) even though a cause was not ever determined at that time.

For reference she’s a 4 year old Red Star not currently laying (on the hormone) and her bloodwork and fecal have been normal.

She was set to be euthanized the day after the vet suspected cancer, so I brought her home for a few hours but noted how she was so happy to be home and so full of life and informed the vet and was told in these end of life situations to play it by ear and take it day by day and to not continue her medications and to call when she needs to be put down. I initially thought she would only last a day or 2 at home and it would be a hospice type situation but now we are on day 6 which is leading to my confusion. She dust bathes, digs around and is alert and curious but will stand still with closed eyes for a bit. She's still in the crop bra the vet put her in and her crop in varying stages of fullness. She eats a tiny tiny bit on her own, is ridiculously thirsty but I’ve only let her have very little water as I fear it will just back up in her crop as it did for the vet.

I know many on here have done necropsies and/ or battled crop issues and I was wondering if anyone has an interpretation for what may be going on with my hen based on what these X-rays show? Do we agree it’s likely a cancer? But if so why is she so lively at home still? Thoughts on the inflammed intestines? I just read about hay / grass impactions and gizzard impactions, could something like that be a possibility instead of cancer? Lastly, any advice how should I care for her each day?

I appreciate any offerings of help or insight here. This is my first flock and I’ve lost 2 to cancer already but this experience feels different and I’m at a loss for what to do each day she is with me other than be grateful and to try to let her enjoy being a chicken after being through so much while in the hospital...

Attached are 3 X-rays after barium administered in am: 1st done in afternoon, 2nd done in evening and the 3rd, for comparison, was her X-ray from Jan that showed no issue.

 

[cate1124]

Hi, I’m posting this to try to get a second opinion and another interpretation on x-rays of my hen.

My beloved pet hen was hospitalized at the vet for roughly 20 days while they were very stumped and unable to figure out what was going on. There she battled e.coli, 2 subsequent bacterial infections (likely from initial antibiotic) and crop stasis/ sour crop and fluid and gas filling her crop. Though there was improvement in symptoms at various points in time during her vet stay and seemed like things were headed in the right direction, the lingering issue is the crop is still not properly emptying and retaining fluid/gas or possibly refilling and a partial blockage of some sort in GI tract is suspected. A barium study was done with a series of X-rays throughout the day. The vet noted that the intestines look inflamed, and there is the barium illuminating in a tear drop shape with tiny tail that the vet says indicates a blockage. They are suspecting cancer. The vet also noted that the barium study X-rays look very different from the study that had been done for this same hen back in Jan when she presented with some similar symptoms but yet recovered in about a week (with injectable antibiotic and anti fungal) even though a cause was not ever determined at that time.

For reference she’s a 4 year old Red Star not currently laying (on the hormone) and her bloodwork and fecal have been normal.

She was set to be euthanized the day after the vet suspected cancer, so I brought her home for a few hours but noted how she was so happy to be home and so full of life and informed the vet and was told in these end of life situations to play it by ear and take it day by day and to not continue her medications and to call when she needs to be put down. I initially thought she would only last a day or 2 at home and it would be a hospice type situation but now we are on day 6 which is leading to my confusion. She dust bathes, digs around and is alert and curious but will stand still with closed eyes for a bit. She's still in the crop bra the vet put her in and her crop in varying stages of fullness. She eats a tiny tiny bit on her own, is ridiculously thirsty but I’ve only let her have very little water as I fear it will just back up in her crop as it did for the vet.

I know many on here have done necropsies and/ or battled crop issues and I was wondering if anyone has an interpretation for what may be going on with my hen based on what these X-rays show? Do we agree it’s likely a cancer? But if so why is she so lively at home still? Thoughts on the inflammed intestines? I just read about hay / grass impactions and gizzard impactions, could something like that be a possibility instead of cancer? Lastly, any advice how should I care for her each day?

I appreciate any offerings of help or insight here. This is my first flock and I’ve lost 2 to cancer already but this experience feels different and I’m at a loss for what to do each day she is with me other than be grateful and to try to let her enjoy being a chicken after being through so much while in the hospital...

Attached are 3 X-rays after barium administered in am: 1st done in afternoon, 2nd done in evening and the 3rd, for comparison, was her X-ray from Jan that showed no issue.

You've gone to great lengths for her; you obviously love her.

I'm no expert on x-rays, but I do think it's important to her psyche to be with her flock, not hospitalized. Whatever good being hospitalized does (or doesn't) do medically, it's likely not worth the stress of undergoing procedures in such an unnatural environment, separated from her flock, for any length of time. No wonder she was so happy to be home!

I've tried crop bras (well, I've tried cropped bras, while my hen has tried a crop bra) without great success and a fair amount of vexation to the hen. It's not a great way for them to live over time. If cancer is causing a blockage impairing crop function, see below.

The steroid dexamethasone, a powerful anti-inflammatory, can help a great deal with tumor-related pain, and stimulate appetite, drinking and overall well-being. Its effects won't last forever, but can extend or restore a good quality of life for some weeks; that was my experience with an old girl dying of cancer that was paining and immobilizing her. Dex requires an RX, but is inexpensive and can be dosed orally:

https://poultrydvm.com/drugs/dexamethasone

Good luck!

 

[scyllarus]

I'm not a vet, nor a chicken keeper. I can't really read a chicken x-ray, though I can see that your hen's intestines look enlarged and I can see the area that's narrow. I do work in medicine, and I think I can at least explain your vet's reasoning as to why they feel it's cancer, and why she's still active - though you've also mentioned that you've already lost two chooks to cancer, so perhaps you know most of this already.

The 'tail' of the teardrop is where the cancer is growing. It's growing inside the wall of the intestine and making it more narrow - eventually it will become too narrow for anything to pass. I don't believe it looks like a blockage - the wall of the intestine is pretty clear in the x-ray.

Cancer tends to make someone tired because it's sucking up nutrients that your body needs so it can grow uncontrollably. However, not all cancers are created the same - if a cancer is able to spread easily, it will make you tired much faster than a cancer that's limited to one place. Some tumors will grow but stay in one area, and those tend to cause issues based on where they're growing. In your case, it seems like your hen has the latter - a tumor that's invaded her intestine and is blocking off her GI tract. If you were able to magically keep her fed somehow, the tumor would eventually spread to other organs and/or start pressing on other things. Right now, though, it seems like it's not causing a lot of pain and it seems like it hasn't really spread to things like bones which can be extremely painful.

I don't have any recommendations besides enjoying the time you have with her. You clearly love her a lot and have done everything you could - you'll know when it's time to let her go.

 

[Eggcessive]

I really hope that your hen does not have cancer, but it is very common in hens over 2-3 years. I have had hens struggle with crop problems for months before they died, and they were always most happy being with their flocks hanging out until near the end. Crop problems can be a secondary issue from cancer, reproductive disorders, or water belly. When you do eventually lose her one day, your state vet could do a thorough necropsy to look for the cause. There are viruses that can cause certain cancers, so a necropsy might be beneficial.

 

[Peck-n-Poot]

You've gone to great lengths for her; you obviously love her.

I'm no expert on x-rays, but I do think it's important to her psyche to be with her flock, not hospitalized. Whatever good being hospitalized does (or doesn't) do medically, it's likely not worth the stress of undergoing procedures in such an unnatural environment, separated from her flock, for any length of time. No wonder she was so happy to be home!

I've tried crop bras (well, I've tried cropped bras, while my hen has tried a crop bra) without great success and a fair amount of vexation to the hen. It's not a great way for them to live over time. If cancer is causing a blockage impairing crop function, see below.

The steroid dexamethasone, a powerful anti-inflammatory, can help a great deal with tumor-related pain, and stimulate appetite, drinking and overall well-being. Its effects won't last forever, but can extend or restore a good quality of life for some weeks; that was my experience with an old girl dying of cancer that was paining and immobilizing her. Dex requires an RX, but is inexpensive and can be dosed orally:

https://poultrydvm.com/drugs/dexamethasone

Good luck!

Thank you so much for your response and kind words. I really appreciate it.

I do agree, I think it has been the best thing for her mentally and emotionally to be back home now. She’s really enjoying being back with her flock. At the vet’s office she would jump into my lap and try to bury her head in my jacket or under my arms. It’s challenging at home as I’ve not let her back into her coop/run as I’m afraid she would guzzle the water that’s setup in there and overfill her already full crop again. But thankfully I’m able to let her spend most of the day in her garden.

And thank you for sharing the info on the steroid. That is good to know of that option and glad your hen experienced some relief with it. It would seem that it’s anti inflammatory affects would benefit the intestines of my girl that are inflamed and any pain. I wonder if it would have any effect upon the ability of food/water to get through or not? I recall the vet was thinking the cancer was inside the intestines and wasn’t an outside tumor pushing against them.

I feel so bad for her as she wants to eat and wants to drink, but it’s just got no way to get through except for the tiniest bit and I worry that what she does consume will just turn sour in her crop

 

[Eggcessive]

I would not withhold water from her, and she does need food. Without water she may have more crop problems and become dehydrated and weak. Let her eat some mushy chicken feed and egg. Is she passing droppings? Barium from the X-rays can turn to a solid, so it needs to come out.

 

[Peck-n-Poot]

I'm not a vet, nor a chicken keeper. I can't really read a chicken x-ray, though I can see that your hen's intestines look enlarged and I can see the area that's narrow. I do work in medicine, and I think I can at least explain your vet's reasoning as to why they feel it's cancer, and why she's still active - though you've also mentioned that you've already lost two chooks to cancer, so perhaps you know most of this already.

The 'tail' of the teardrop is where the cancer is growing. It's growing inside the wall of the intestine and making it more narrow - eventually it will become too narrow for anything to pass. I don't believe it looks like a blockage - the wall of the intestine is pretty clear in the x-ray.

Cancer tends to make someone tired because it's sucking up nutrients that your body needs so it can grow uncontrollably. However, not all cancers are created the same - if a cancer is able to spread easily, it will make you tired much faster than a cancer that's limited to one place. Some tumors will grow but stay in one area, and those tend to cause issues based on where they're growing. In your case, it seems like your hen has the latter - a tumor that's invaded her intestine and is blocking off her GI tract. If you were able to magically keep her fed somehow, the tumor would eventually spread to other organs and/or start pressing on other things. Right now, though, it seems like it's not causing a lot of pain and it seems like it hasn't really spread to things like bones which can be extremely painful.

I don't have any recommendations besides enjoying the time you have with her. You clearly love her a lot and have done everything you could - you'll know when it's time to let her go.

Thank you so much for your response and for taking the time to explain this to me and for sharing your observations of the X-ray. It really helps to get a clearer understanding and make sense of things. In reading your explanation about the “tail” and reflecting back I now realize that I think the vet was telling me essentially the same thing and though it had made sense as she was speaking, my brain went to complete mush after the “c” word.

I really appreciate all this info as it is new to me. The other 2 that I lost to cancer were completely different experiences and different in presentation and I guess there is a lesson to be gleaned from that as well.

And thank you for your confidence in me that I will know when it is time to let her go. I really hope so. It can feel very isolating not knowing what to do or not do for one you love and is under your care.

 

[Peck-n-Poot]

I would not withhold water from her, and she does need food. Without water she may have more crop problems and become dehydrated and weak. Let her eat some mushy chicken feed and egg. Is she passing droppings? Barium from the X-rays can turn to a solid, so it needs to come out.

Oh gosh, thank you for letting me know! I have been offering food and as much as she wants of it. She has been eating a tiny bit of scrambled eggs and tiny bit of her food along with a couple worms I’ve seen her dig up. I tried mashing her food with water and thought she would go for it since she wants water so much but no interest in that. I can see that she wants to eat more and will tap her beak together looking at it but will only have a few bites and about that time too is when I hear the gurgling in her crop. I know it’s definitely not enough food to actually sustain her. Today I notice a decrease in eating even more and she’s not having as much of the scrambled eggs as she was previous days.

Didn’t know that the barium turns solid. Eek. That was probably the light colored sludgy stuff I saw the first couple nights and there was a solid chalky white pebble another day

Her poops haven’t been much. Tiny bit of liquid, some white urates and little bit of greenish matter which I suspect is the bile excreted from not eating enough. Here’s a photo of one from yesterday.

When she was at the vet after the 2nd antibiotic her poops were starting to get better and other symptoms were starting to improve too and then they regressed and her crop kept refilling on them (again) and they couldn’t figure out where the fluid in the crop was coming from and so they tried for days and days with various tube feeding amounts/ formulas and pulled fluid out of crop multiple times, crop flushes, withhold water etc because she will regurgitate when it gets too full. So I’ve been scared to let her get much water as her crop already had fluid in it the night I brought her home last week after the barium study. I’m scared to fill her crop as I wouldn’t know what to do but also scared I’m not giving her nearly enough and not sure how much actually get through Like a catch 22. Any idea how much water they need each day? Or any suggestions what to do?

 

[cate1124]

Thank you so much for your response and kind words. I really appreciate it.

I do agree, I think it has been the best thing for her mentally and emotionally to be back home now. She’s really enjoying being back with her flock. At the vet’s office she would jump into my lap and try to bury her head in my jacket or under my arms. It’s challenging at home as I’ve not let her back into her coop/run as I’m afraid she would guzzle the water that’s setup in there and overfill her already full crop again. But thankfully I’m able to let her spend most of the day in her garden.

And thank you for sharing the info on the steroid. That is good to know of that option and glad your hen experienced some relief with it. It would seem that it’s anti inflammatory affects would benefit the intestines of my girl that are inflamed and any pain. I wonder if it would have any effect upon the ability of food/water to get through or not? I recall the vet was thinking the cancer was inside the intestines and wasn’t an outside tumor pushing against them.

I feel so bad for her as she wants to eat and wants to drink, but it’s just got no way to get through except for the tiniest bit and I worry that what she does consume will just turn sour in her crop

I certainly understand your concern. I had a salmon faverolle who was 3 when her crop just stopped working. Maybe an obstruction, as is possible with your girl. Like her, mine wanted to eat and drink, but it simply wasn't passing on and through her digestive system as it should have. I tried medication prescribed by one vet; no effect. A mobile vet came and manually drained her crop a couple of times. I tried a crop bra. Nothing had any lasting effect. I hated to put down such a young bird; she was a pistol and a beauty, and I was quite fond of her. But in the end, I saw no other option. It IS hard to watch them want to eat and just not be able to process food. It begins to seem cruel.

I hope you find a solution, but if not, please be consoled by knowing you did all you could. Not all individuals in a species get a long spin, and unfortunately, some who don't are the ones we love.

 

[scyllarus]

Thank you so much for your response and for taking the time to explain this to me and for sharing your observations of the X-ray. It really helps to get a clearer understanding and make sense of things. In reading your explanation about the “tail” and reflecting back I now realize that I think the vet was telling me essentially the same thing and though it had made sense as she was speaking, my brain went to complete mush after the “c” word.

I really appreciate all this info as it is new to me. The other 2 that I lost to cancer were completely different experiences and different in presentation and I guess there is a lesson to be gleaned from that as well.

And thank you for your confidence in me that I will know when it is time to let her go. I really hope so. It can feel very isolating not knowing what to do or not do for one you love and is under your care.

No problem! I think most peoples' brains seize up when the dreaded C word is mentioned, so it's always good to get the information again. Cancer can be very complicated - it's not a single disease, but a whole family of different diseases - and unfortunately it can present very differently in different cases.

And yes, absolutely. Caring for someone with cancer is it's own journey and struggle, and when you're talking about a beloved pet it seems most people don't understand what you're going through. For myself and the Husband, we've talked about when it's time to let go for our babies - for us it's when they're no longer enjoying life. You love your chook, you'll know.