are you able to think outside the box? Who has raised a cornish cross to maturity?

[ChickenCide]

Let me start by saying, I AM LOOKING FOR EXPERIENCES. NOT WHAT YOU HAVE READ. NOT WHAT YOU KNOW. NOT WHAT IS SUPPOSSED TO BE DONE. CAN YOU THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX?

I have spent a lot of time researching Cornish Crosses and am very interested by what i have found. The conspiracies, the contradictions, the question, misinformation, and ambiguity. I want to know about YOUR personal experiences. Who has raised any cornish cross to sexual maturity and done so successfully? Was it a rooster or a hen or both? have you been able to collect and hatch any eggs with a cornish cross as a parent or even both as parents? I would really like to know if anyone has successfully hatched a full cornish cross egg. (I know you who haven't done this are dying to type right now why it wont work...please move on unless you have actually tried) So who here has actually successfully hatched a cornish cross egg? Or tried and failed? Any egg layed or fertilized by a cornish cross, or even an egg with both parents as cornish cross. how were the offspring, how was the growth rate? Have you been able to take that to the next generation? I have found sporadic videos of people who have done this, and what it takes but I would like to know any experiences and failures YOU have had. Please let me know.

 

[NatJ]

I want to know about YOUR personal experiences. Who has raised any cornish cross to sexual maturity and done so successfully? Was it a rooster or a hen or both?

A number of people on this forum have previously mentioned their experiences raising Cornish Cross. It seems to be moderately common, either as pets or for breeding.

Here are some links as a starting point. In general, each thread and/or each person has quite a few more posts too.

Several people in this thread have raised Cornish Cross to breeding age:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/can-cornish-x-breed.1496268/

@U_Stormcrow raised a few Cornish Cross to breeding age.
Here are links to a few posts that mention them:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ed-my-chickens😊.1622127/page-15#post-27747681
(mentions Cornish Cross males and whether they fertilized any eggs.)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...oss-no-supplement-feed.1612492/#post-27515604
(mentions a Conish Cross female that lived to maturity.)

@lpatelski raised a number of Cornish Cross and bred some of them successfully. Here are a few of the posts that mention them:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...r-meat-and-more.1069243/page-55#post-18918108
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/breeding-cornish-x-rocks.184354/page-19#post-18829927
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...d-super-excited.896158/page-736#post-17940939

@JessicaThistle raised a Cornish Cross hen to maturity. Here is a post that mentions her:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...d-super-excited.896158/page-740#post-17970142

@duluthralphie raised some Cornish Cross to maturity and went on to develop a line of meat birds descended from them. This thread talks about that project:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/toad-raising.1152440/
Here are a few other posts mentioning them:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...d-super-excited.896158/page-745#post-18080393
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/homesteaders.752545/page-386#post-17482286

@kuntrygirl raised several Cornish Cross to maturity as pets:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/life-span-in-cornish-white-cross.551431/#post-7092162

I know there are many other users and posts as well.

 

[ChickenCide]

A number of people on this forum have previously mentioned their experiences raising Cornish Cross. It seems to be moderately common, either as pets or for breeding.

Here are some links as a starting point. In general, each thread and/or each person has quite a few more posts too.

Several people in this thread have raised Cornish Cross to breeding age:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/can-cornish-x-breed.1496268/

@U_Stormcrow raised a few Cornish Cross to breeding age.
Here are links to a few posts that mention them:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/things-i-dont-feed-my-chickens.1622127/page-15#post-27747681
(mentions Cornish Cross males and whether they fertilized any eggs.)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...oss-no-supplement-feed.1612492/#post-27515604
(mentions a Conish Cross female that lived to maturity.)

@lpatelski raised a number of Cornish Cross and bred some of them successfully. Here are a few of the posts that mention them:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...r-meat-and-more.1069243/page-55#post-18918108
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/breeding-cornish-x-rocks.184354/page-19#post-18829927
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...d-super-excited.896158/page-736#post-17940939

@JessicaThistle raised a Cornish Cross hen to maturity. Here is a post that mentions her:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...d-super-excited.896158/page-740#post-17970142

@duluthralphie raised some Cornish Cross to maturity and went on to develop a line of meat birds descended from them. This thread talks about that project:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/toad-raising.1152440/
Here are a few other posts mentioning them:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...d-super-excited.896158/page-745#post-18080393
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/homesteaders.752545/page-386#post-17482286

@kuntrygirl raised several Cornish Cross to maturity as pets:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/life-span-in-cornish-white-cross.551431/#post-7092162

I know there are many other users and posts as well.

Hi thank you so much for putting these links together for me. I really appreciate it. Thank you again.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you for doing all the links @NatJ .

and @ChickenCide if my posts didn't make clear, I would not try raising Cx to maturity again. The only lasting genetics I got out of it was the dominant white gene - which I am still trying to scrub from my flock. Fast growth, potential size, even breast/thigh ratio wre inconsistently expressed across the first generation or two and completely absent thereafter.

Maybe if I could have put Cx over Cx I'd have had better luck - though based on posts from others, that's a craps shoot too - but non-Cx Roos over Cx hens was not a recipe for long terms success in my (limited) experience. Better Roos might have helped. Or not.

 

[ChickenCide]

I was able to appreciate your conclusion thank you. So from what I was looking into, (and I could be wrong I just began looking into this a couple days ago)

Thank you for doing all the links @NatJ .

and @ChickenCide if my posts didn't make clear, I would not try raising Cx to maturity again. The only lasting genetics I got out of it was the dominant white gene - which I am still trying to scrub from my flock. Fast growth, potential size, even breast/thigh ratio wre inconsistently expressed across the first generation or two and completely absent thereafter.

Maybe if I could have put Cx over Cx I'd have had better luck - though based on posts from others, that's a craps shoot too - but non-Cx Roos over Cx hens was not a recipe for long terms success in my (limited) experience. Better Roos might have helped. Or not.

Thank you for doing all the links @NatJ .

and @ChickenCide if my posts didn't make clear, I would not try raising Cx to maturity again. The only lasting genetics I got out of it was the dominant white gene - which I am still trying to scrub from my flock. Fast growth, potential size, even breast/thigh ratio wre inconsistently expressed across the first generation or two and completely absent thereafter.

Maybe if I could have put Cx over Cx I'd have had better luck - though based on posts from others, that's a craps shoot too - but non-Cx Roos over Cx hens was not a recipe for long terms success in my (limited) experience. Better Roos might have helped. Or not.

I apologize i posted that before even collecting my thoughts in even a vaguely coherent manner, why does this place not allow to delete/edit. oh well maybe it does.
What i was trying to ask, since you seem to have a lot more info and experience, what is your understanding about where these Cx come from. What i was finding, is some time in the 50s they began trying to create this fast growing hi yield/low cost bird.
My questions are so basically every chicken we get at the store, from KFC, ANYWHERE, with small small exceptions of maybe a family owned place, everything is Cornish cross. And they almost all come from 2 companies, Tyson and IDK the other offhand.
and the way these birds have come about, is through selective breeding, picking not only breeds, but specific birds that have these desired traits, and continuing this on down the line. Also, they have been cross breeding them and then takin those hibrids and breeding them with other hi brids. so essentially the 2 parent birds of the cross are hi brids that were created from 4 granparent hibrid birds. And it actually goes on past there. I recenlty heard the termF1 and F2 and thought that F2 referred to the cornish which is indicated by what i just wrote regarding the lineage, however I have also heard they are F20 something, meaning its something like 20 generations worth.
My question is, is my understanding correct on a basic level, and do you know how far back this breeding goes in the birds lineage. How many generations back are they going in order to create this bird? are the parent hybrids able to always make a cornish so as long as they have the 2 parents, they can routinely hatch cornish cross, they just cant replicate the cornish cross through breeding them? And what are the breeds they are using. I initially thought it was deleware and a cornish (deleware i believe is already a RIR/Rock) but I know realize it is much more complicated.
Finally, I realize now that we are eating these birds that grow abnormally fast, fat, unhealthy, and they are everywhere, basically all we eat. Do you have any feedback you are willing to share?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

The breeding program that created what we now call the Cornish Cross goes back many decades, and continues to this day. There are actually a number of different (but substantially similar) bird we call the Cornish Cross being sold under various trade names. The Cobb Vantress 500 is one example. See also the Ross 308. The lines continue to be refined, those two are among the most well known,

I am unclear whether Tyson has their own line, or purchases stock lines from others to then produce offspring for their own use. You may recall a few years back, they selected the wrong male line, resulting in a shortage.

And yes, the proper parents will always result in "Cx" offspring. But for reasons of genetics I don't understand, their offspring do not (allegedly) result in consistent quality "Cx"-type birds.

 

[NatJ]

so essentially the 2 parent birds of the cross are hi brids that were created from 4 granparent hibrid birds. And it actually goes on past there. I recenlty heard the termF1 and F2 and thought that F2 referred to the cornish which is indicated by what i just wrote regarding the lineage, however I have also heard they are F20 something, meaning its something like 20 generations worth.
My question is, is my understanding correct on a basic level, and do you know how far back this breeding goes in the birds lineage. How many generations back are they going in order to create this bird? are the parent hybrids able to always make a cornish so as long as they have the 2 parents, they can routinely hatch cornish cross, they just cant replicate the cornish cross through breeding them? And what are the breeds they are using. I initially thought it was deleware and a cornish (deleware i believe is already a RIR/Rock) but I know realize it is much more complicated.

What you have found is fairly close to what I have found.
The different numbers for F1, F2, F20 would be counting different things.

My understanding is that currently, a given company will maintain a fairly stable population of 4 kinds of birds. They pair those to get F1 chicks that will be the parents of the F2 Cornish Cross we can buy, raise, and eat. Or buy in the store after someone else raised them. Of course their "fairly stable" lines of chickens are constantly being selected to be better on the traits that are important to the people doing the selecting (fast growth of chicks with good feed efficiency and good enough health to make it to butchering age, good laying abilities in their mothers so there are lots of eggs to hatch, good mating ability in their fathers because the eggs need to be fertile.)

If someone is saying that modern Cornish Cross are F20 or higher generation, they would be counting from a point much earlier in the development of that type of chicken. The different number is just because they are counting from a different starting point.

The whole process started nearly a hundred years ago, when people discovered that crossing certain breeds of chickens would produce chicks that grew big and fast (relative to other chickens of the time.) When you see a bird in the store labeled "Rock Cornish Game Hen," that is a reminder of some of the breeds used early in the development: white Plymouth Rock and Cornish that is sometimes called Cornish Game or Indian Game.

Once people were breeding chickens specifically to produce hybrids to butcher, they no longer cared if they were breeding a Cornish (or any other breed) with the right traits for that breed, as long as it produced hybrid offspring with the desired traits. For example, actual Cornish chickens (the pure breed) have pea combs. The Cornish Cross meat chickens do not have pea combs. The pea comb gene also causes a change in the skin along the breast, which does not bother the chicken but does look a little different, so someone made a decision about which way they wanted the chicken to look after being killed & plucked, and bred all parent lines accordingly.

the way these birds have come about, is through selective breeding, picking not only breeds, but specific birds that have these desired traits, and continuing this on down the line.

Exactly right. Over many years, they have made enormous changes from the birds they started with.

I have seen comparison photos of chickens from modern meat lines versus meat chickens in the past. For example, this article has some:
https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/how-chickens-tripled-in-size/
(I found some of the text in that article rather interesting too, but I'm mostly mentioning it for the pictures.)

what are the breeds they are using. I initially thought it was deleware and a cornish (deleware i believe is already a RIR/Rock) but I know realize it is much more complicated.

By now, producers of Cornish Cross are not using any recognizable breed. I've seen several different listings of which breeds were originally involved, although they all seem to agree that Cornish were involved plus one or more of the traditional dual purpose breeds.

Regarding Delawares, I've read that they started with New Hampshires and Barred Rocks. But you cannot just cross those two breeds to get Delawares. It takes at least two generations to see any chicks with the Delaware coloring, and longer to get all the traits properly established and breeding true. A similar thing has happened with the parent stock of Cornish Cross chickens, that you cannot duplicate them from any simple cross of pure chicken breeds (although you could re-create a Delaware much more quickly than you could re-create the parent stock for Cornish Cross.)