Best breeding set up for heritage turkeys?

[HeritageFan]

I have had ducks for about 6 years, and am almost to the 1 year mark w my turkeys. No other birds or fowls before we got our first ducks.
So. I consider myself a relative newbie.... although I have learned a ton!
I have recently separated breeding pairs of turkeys (they decided spring had arrived suddenly about 2 weeks ago, and the Toms started to fight, a lot And the girls, well, were ready for ...hmmm... getting inadvertently injured). So.
I put my 3 Holland White hens in w the only brown eyed HW Tom I have, and put my only bourbon red hen in w the larger (and more docile) of my 2 BR Toms.
The bachelors are in a separate coop, w separate runs (3 in the larger coop and the one who was instigating the most fights next to them in a smaller coop w a 5’ no climb fence as a separator. They are not trying to fight thru the fence, now that it’s been a few days....)
I also have some more (Sweetgrass and related) poults coming later in June.
My brooder is ready to go, and-
I would like to get breeding and bachelor pens set up properly for them all.
I would love to know what people who have multiple breeds running at the same time have set up to minimize fighting, and what your routines are.
I have looked on the forums, checked out the Tube... but don’t really feel like I’ve found answers that I have confidence in...
Our property is steep, and we live in NW OR- lots of grass, a seasonal creek, I love to let them free range while I’m around to keep an eye on them, but.... I won’t be able to pull that off if I have 4-8 groups, so I’m trying to brainstorm a better solution for our generally temperate climate.
We are at about 1500’ so summers are not -as- bad as many other areas in the state (and OR is way better than many other states in the summer - and winter!)
But I’d like to do it as right as I can the first time, esp because I will likely end up w 4 breeds until I can pull the Fall Fire back into the Sweetgrass and get a stable result w offspring.
Can anyone shoot me some ideas and/ or photos of set ups for breeding pens, nest boxes, runs, ideas for proper separation of the bachelors to minimize fights, and- do you bring the Toms in and out of the hens’ areas during breeding season, or leave them together?
I plan to put eggs in the incubator and have been collecting daily.
And. I am absolutely happy (and appreciative) for any advice on these silly pterodactyls

 

[R2elk]

@Huntmaster

 

[HeritageFan]

@Huntmaster

@Huntmaster has sent me some photos in a previous thread that I’ve been using to move forward w my current build (thank you, again, Huntmaster! )
I’ve also been doing what I can to study the photos that Porter’s have on their web site (that is where my next poults are coming from) but it’s a bit hard to see their set up, since they were focused on taking photos of their birds... They have also been super helpful, but we had such an awesome (and long) conversation about color genetics in turkeys.... I don’t really want to bother him about optimal pen layouts -if- I can find help here-

I think that my biggest challenge so far has been sufficient square footage based on what I’ve read, that ends up being insufficient in practice (again, HM helped me sort that out and it has been a drastic improvement as I add space as quickly as I can). That said, I don’t want to set up more areas where the “wrong” groups are neighbors, or don’t have enough space to be comfortable if they are stuck in a coop and yard!
I am also really curious about how Turkey “people” have their nesting boxes set up- how far off the ground,
how much height the hens need to comfortably fly into the space, etc.

My current breeding groups are set up in a large coop w an attached run for each group, and they each have a 2’ “tall” metal trough turned on its side to use for laying. They sometimes lay in it, more often on top of it, sometimes beside it- but they are also just starting to lay. I use pine shavings for bedding and am also curious if they would be more comfortable laying more consistently if I had one spot that was more akin to what most chicken coops have (a raised area / box, and, perhaps w straw instead of shavings?)

I’m also curious about whether it makes more sense to set up more coops and pull more fencing further away from my current group, so I can get the bachelors further away from the breeding groups, and, if it’s better for the hens to let the Toms “visit” maybe once a week - or if it’s ok to let the one boy stay w the girls since I’m pulling eggs daily?
My Tom to hen ratio is not ideal, one group is 1:1, the other is 3 hens to 1 Tom. But. That is all I have for hens per breed rn.

I don’t have any interest in going “large scale”. But. I do want to move forward with 4 breeds for now, and will probably phase out the Fall Fire once I can get them integrated into the Sweetgrass.... but that is going to take a few generations, so, I need to plan to either phase out my bourbon reds (my smallest group), or plan to have 4 breeds for the next few years. I’d rather do it right the first time if possible

 

[R2elk]

I am also really curious about how Turkey “people” have their nesting boxes set up- how far off the ground,

Turkeys are ground nesters. All of the nests my turkey hens are using this year are on the ground.

 

[R2elk]

how much height the hens need to comfortably fly into the space, etc.

My hens do not fly into their nesting space. They walk in.

 

[R2elk]

FYI all domestic turkeys are the breed Turkey. You have several varieties of turkeys. Best advice for someone starting out who wants to stay small scale is to choose one variety and do the best you can with that one variety.

Once the hens have nests, do not allow the toms to have access to the nests.

Just leaning a pallet against a wall provides a better nesting site than a metal trough laid on its side.

I am on a sand dune. My hens nest on the ground. I do not provide any additional bedding materials.


One of their current nests.

Obviously the snow is melted now.

 

[R2elk]

I’m also curious about whether it makes more sense to set up more coops and pull more fencing further away from my current group, so I can get the bachelors further away from the breeding groups,

If you are keeping a bachelor group, their set up should be out of sight of the hens and breeding toms.

if it’s better for the hens to let the Toms “visit” maybe once a week - or if it’s ok to let the one boy stay w the girls since I’m pulling eggs daily?

The breeding toms can stay with their hens as long as they do not have access to the nests and the hens have the ability to get away from them when they so desire.

 

[KF0002]

If breeding 1:1, I would do as previously mentioned and only allow the tom to visit the hen once or so a week for a few hours. Keep him in a bachelor pen the rest of the time. Or if mating him to more than one single-mate pens, just move him around. Hopefully your breeder males are friendly. We do that with chickens sometimes when I am single mating more than one rooster to multiple hens but I don't want to group mate for line breeding purposes. Like chickens, hen turkeys can retain enough sperm to fertilize over a weeks worth of eggs from a single mating session. I have a friend who keeps her tom in with her hens all the time at a 1:2 ratio and the toms go into the nest boxes with the hens and stomp the eggs sometimes and simply annoy the hens majorly. A tom's courtship can be overzealous and counterproductive if he is following the hens in the nest and ruining everything.

 

[HeritageFan]

If breeding 1:1, I would do as previously mentioned and only allow the tom to visit the hen once or so a week for a few hours. Keep him in a bachelor pen the rest of the time. Or if mating him to more than one single-mate pens, just move him around. Hopefully your breeder males are friendly. We do that with chickens sometimes when I am single mating more than one rooster to multiple hens but I don't want to group mate for line breeding purposes. Like chickens, hen turkeys can retain enough sperm to fertilize over a weeks worth of eggs from a single mating session. I have a friend who keeps her tom in with her hens all the time at a 1:2 ratio and the toms go into the nest boxes with the hens and stomp the eggs sometimes and simply annoy the hens majorly. A tom's courtship can be overzealous and counterproductive if he is following the hens in the nest and ruining everything.

Thank you for the suggestions!
I have been working on improving my nesting “areas” for the hens.
And yes, all of my Toms are very manageable (at this point at least!). I handle them more often than just wing clipping days, and have handled them nearly daily since they were poults.
Most of them actually come up for attention when I’m out w them
The White Holland hens are the most interested in attention. All of our Toms are generally friendly.
The Bourbon Red hen is manageable, but by far the most skittish of our current turkeys- and even she is more docile than our ducks but tbh I worked a lot harder w the turkeys (didn’t want 30# terrors lol), and didn’t get the ducks until they were a few months old.

 

[KF0002]

Thank you for the suggestions!
I have been working on improving my nesting “areas” for the hens.
And yes, all of my Toms are very manageable (at this point at least!). I handle them more often than just wing clipping days, and have handled them nearly daily since they were poults.
Most of them actually come up for attention when I’m out w them
The White Holland hens are the most interested in attention. All of our Toms are generally friendly.
The Bourbon Red hen is manageable, but by far the most skittish of our current turkeys- and even she is more docile than our ducks but tbh I worked a lot harder w the turkeys (didn’t want 30# terrors lol), and didn’t get the ducks until they were a few months old.

I'm glad to hear your toms are friendly! I have had a 30# terror and it isn't very fun. I was given a young Eastern Wild Turkey jake around 13-14 years ago before we moved to the property we own now. He was beautiful and friendly until he matured and turned into a woman-hating nightmare! He was only aggressive toward me, and I showed him nothing but love. I think he never forgave me for dusting him for mites. lol But it hurts when you get flogged by a turkey that big. We were going to eat him but he eventually grew in his primary wing feathers that I had clipped to keep him in the yard and he flew the fence and went to the mountains never to be seen again. I will be sticking to domesticated turkeys.