Bobwhite quail hatch update

[Bee Creek Quail]

Hello BYC - I joined a few months ago and wanted to post some pictures on my bobwhite quail hatch. I am very new to all of this and have received a lot of great info on this site and continue to figure it out as I go. I'll list my experiences below on my 4 wk old hatchlings, but any feedback, errors, or pointers on things I'm doing/not doing would be appreciated.

I purchased mail order Butler bobwhite quail eggs from a vendor in TN. I live in TX. Unfortunately, USPS held these for an entire week (despite 3d delivery), so I'd guess they were in the incubator on D14. Knowing about this delay, I also visited a nearby quail vendor that was also selling Butler bobwhite eggs to secure a 2nd batch. Wish I had stumbled upon this first!

My results: 2/42 (5%) hatched from TN batch. 45/68 (66%) hatched from my TX batch. I didn't candle until D20 (start of lockdown). I showed 88/110 viable chicks possible. So, overall we had 47 birds out of 110 eggs (43%). They were incubated 1 day apart and I used a couple of incubators but had to purchase quail egg trays online to accommodate my eggs. I monitored temp and humidity daily and discovered some wildly different data that's out there. From this forum, I discovered lockdown humidity was way too high. I was told to keep at 70-75% from the incubator instructions for quail (and went as high as 80% for a while), but forgot who posted here (@007Sean?) and said should not be above 65%. Incubator picture below.

The delay in shipping was probably a big issue, but even the TX batch had a lot of undeveloped (shrink wrapped?) chicks that didn't pip the egg beyond a single pip. My wife and I did "rescue" several (3-4) that survived as we wanted the D26 chicks to hatch and they didn't seem to progress much after 12 hours. Great resource and instruction was available here on BYC on how to do this!

As for hatching, I was under impression hatchings for bobwhite's would be D23. I was surprised when the 1st one hatched on D24. Picture below of the 1st one. The majority happened on D25 and the rest completed on D26. Is this normal or species specific? Most mention coturnix at D23.

I was expecting a lot of deformities given my low % hatch rate. We did have to cull 5 birds that were just too weak and couldn't walk. But several, we saved. About 5 had deformed feet or splayed legs. We isolated them, did some small strings with the splayed leg ones, and the curled legs ones eventually flatted out. So, all in all, 42 birds made it through week 1 and only 1 of those has 1 leg that never quite got better. But the little guy motors around with no issues at all.

What is surprising is that it's Week 4 now and we have lost no birds (knock on wood!). I thought they would cannabilize or just succumb to stress. But thus far, they are getting much larger and do appear to be getting more aggressive as well.

Brooder: I built a brooder (picture below) and was planning to keep them all in there until Week 8. But I may rethink that given 42 birds & how these birds are doing. Brooder is 5'x2'.

Feed: I am feeding a 28% Starter game bird feed (Bluebonnet Feeds) & they seem to thrive on it. I will transition to a grower feed in 2-4 wks when this bag is gone. @Nabiki posted a great quail food resource post as I'm looking to get an adult feed identified. There is a vendor here in TX that @CliftonQuail shared called Golden Oak. They sell a game bird 24% protein, but it's low on lysine (.9%) and methionine (.3%) from Nabiki's recommendation of 1.4-1.6% and .9%, respectively. I learned I can give sunflowers to increase the lysine, does this help with methionine too? I'm still looking for feed, so maybe I might come across a better alternative as I have several weeks to go.

Breeding: I plan on keeping 18 birds (12:6) for going into next season as egg layers and to get eggs for next years batches. Bob's apparently are much more aggressive than Coturnix and read recommendation of a 1:1 pairing is best. But I also discovered a 1:2 (male/hen) ratio might work as well and adds some flexibility, so that's what I'm planning. The remaining will be in the freezer once they get around 4 months (Bobwhite maturity then?). I am building the wire cages now and next spring, will look at an aviary set up on our property for the adults. For now, they will be housed in wire cages with 6 separate breeding sections and to keep aggression down. Hopefully, the 2 females will play nice. Any shortcomings with this approach?

Other things: I am building the wire cages w/ 1/2" x 1/2" wire cloth sides and 1"x1/2" floor. I plan on keeping them outside and out of my garage and got this small wire cloth given predators...including what the TX egg vendor told me....rodents! Are you kidding me? Racoons, coyotes, all kind of raptors here....but didn't think about rodents targeting my quail. I have watched a lot of good videos on watering cups and installed some Wynona Ranch cups in my brooder that I will use in my cages as well. I like seeing water in the cups and built screens so they can only get their heads into drink. Will use J feeders on the outside for ease of feeding.

My brooder has castors and several times I would take outside, they were fly magnets. So, I came across a recommendation for Quick Strike for house fly management. Man - does that stuff work. You get some of your quail poop in a bowl near the brooder...and by the end of the day, flies are dead all inside the bowl and not much activity around the brooder.


I purchased these 3'x2' trays on Amazon and they are nice, easy to clean trays.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CT3BBJK2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am still experimenting with the pine shavings and PDZ Coop Refresher to aid in odor control. Has anyone tried the saw dust pellets and used for quail? A BYC post last week mentioned the benefits of this for chicken coop poop management, but wasn't sure how this worked for quail. May give it a try and see how it does. Although these quail will be outside, the TX heat is brutal in the summer and even with shade and fans, may have them in my garage for periods where it's slightly cooler.

Anyway - sorry for this catch all update. Just really enjoying this new project and with every obstacle, I again realize I probably would have been better off with coturnix. They lay sooner, are adults faster, and from what I gather, don't have this high anxiety every time you are near them. I was putting new feed inside the other night and lifted one of the lids....and all at once, they began to fly. 2 got out...but they were in my garage and were easily retrieved. Lesson learned going forward. I've been fascinated with bobwhite's since high school and I do hope to eventually release on our property to add to the native population occasionally there. The journey continues.....thanks again to BYC and this forum!

 

[Nabiki]

I did a quick search for methionine rich foods, and sunflower seeds came up as a medium source for methionine. It's certainly better than nothing. You still want to limit the amount of sunflower seeds since they're high in fat and a treat, but they may help.

I have tried the pellets for bedding in my brooders, but I didn't notice that they were any better than pine shavings. If anything, until they broke down a bit, they were a footing hazard for the birds.

During the really high temps (I keep my birds on garden beds in my greenhouse, so it can get hot in there) I give my birds two litre bottles of ice. I fill them about 2/3-3/4 full and freeze them. I also pour some water on the dirt in the shade and they will bathe in the damp dirt.

 

[Bee Creek Quail]

Thanks @Nabiki! Great idea on the frozen water bottles.

 

[007Sean]

Bob's are really better for entertainment than Coturnix are!...but I'm biased in that regards!!

I would not use 1" x 1/2" wire flooring even adult quail's feet will fit through it and make it easier for racoons to 'pull' them through the floor of the cage, just use 1/2" wire all the way around the cage, you can have half of the cage floor plywood to help ease the wear and tear on their feet. A 5' x 2' brooder is not big enough for 42 birds, even chicks.

If you going to keep them in breeder cages, it would be best to keep the ratio of 1:1, if raising on a ground aviary, then depending on the size of the enclosure, you may be able to have a 6:25 ratio...but that will be a trial & error type deal.

My Butlers are pretty tame, not very high strung! I pretty much have to 'kick' them away whenever I'm in their pens and feeding them.

They will not do good if you release them...they won't have any of the 'wild instincts' that wild quail have....predators will have them in a quick chilly minute.

 

[Bee Creek Quail]

Thanks @007Sean for the info! Yes, I'm in the process of moving my 5 week old bob's to their larger cages (grow out & breeder). I ordered 100' of the 1/2"x1/2" coated wire (along w/ 1/2" x 1" 25' roll for the floor). Will take your advice and just do smaller wire around whole thing.

I spoke too soon about having all 42 survive. I open the garage door and often roll out the brooder outside. Turns out, a large TX rat snake gained access to my garage. Thought my brooder was well insulated for any predators. Nope! Made mistake of putting lid "bumpers" so the 2x4 framed lid wouldn't hit the wood frame when closed. This was enough space for the dang thing to climb up & slip in overnight into a very small opening. Ate 2, killed another one. Then couldn't get out. Poor guys were in there all night with this thing. Got it out & let it go. Want him to go back eating rodents...not my birds! Shored up the brooder & now trying to make my all wire cages more predator proof. So your recommendation is another good example of that!

I built the brooder thinking I could move them around 8 weeks but should have the cages completed in the next week. For the next year, doing layer & grow out cages before I design and build the aviary at our property.

Yea - I know it's kind of a stretch to think I can take captive raised bob's & release them into the wild. I think I read its like a 10% survival rate. We have a lot of brush & don't have cattle. More of a fire hazard here in TX that we need to address with all the cover, but good quail habitat. Wild population just fluctuates so much, so was thinking if I could supplement & give adults a fighting chance (vs all the wild hogs tearing up eggs and nest sites). Maybe just a large open aviary with "flight pens." I could try and make this predator proof, but since we don't live there yet, wondered if I can design so they have food & water (and tons of space) for a week at a time?

A few other questions if you can answer:
1.) at night, in brooder outside, they are all tightly packed in the brooder and 75% of the space not used after it gets dark. Quail coveying up I guess. But when I roll brooder into garage for the night, I leave on a very dim red LED. They wake up...and start eating & spread out like during the day. My question is around lighting. Is this bad to have then exposed to light this much or good in that it gives them more time of the day to eat? Just don't know the circadian rhythm's of the quail and what is good vs harmful other than getting more natural light in the fall for increased egg laying.

2.) could you give more detail on the 1:1 breeder cage recommendation? Wouldn't a 2:1 produce more eggs?

Thanks again!

 

[007Sean]

Thanks @007Sean for the info! Yes, I'm in the process of moving my 5 week old bob's to their larger cages (grow out & breeder). I ordered 100' of the 1/2"x1/2" coated wire (along w/ 1/2" x 1" 25' roll for the floor). Will take your advice and just do smaller wire around whole thing.

I spoke too soon about having all 42 survive. I open the garage door and often roll out the brooder outside. Turns out, a large TX rat snake gained access to my garage. Thought my brooder was well insulated for any predators. Nope! Made mistake of putting lid "bumpers" so the 2x4 framed lid wouldn't hit the wood frame when closed. This was enough space for the dang thing to climb up & slip in overnight into a very small opening. Ate 2, killed another one. Then couldn't get out. Poor guys were in there all night with this thing. Got it out & let it go. Want him to go back eating rodents...not my birds! Shored up the brooder & now trying to make my all wire cages more predator proof. So your recommendation is another good example of that!

I built the brooder thinking I could move them around 8 weeks but should have the cages completed in the next week. For the next year, doing layer & grow out cages before I design and build the aviary at our property.

Yea - I know it's kind of a stretch to think I can take captive raised bob's & release them into the wild. I think I read its like a 10% survival rate. We have a lot of brush & don't have cattle. More of a fire hazard here in TX that we need to address with all the cover, but good quail habitat. Wild population just fluctuates so much, so was thinking if I could supplement & give adults a fighting chance (vs all the wild hogs tearing up eggs and nest sites). Maybe just a large open aviary with "flight pens." I could try and make this predator proof, but since we don't live there yet, wondered if I can design so they have food & water (and tons of space) for a week at a time?

A few other questions if you can answer:
1.) at night, in brooder outside, they are all tightly packed in the brooder and 75% of the space not used after it gets dark. Quail coveying up I guess. But when I roll brooder into garage for the night, I leave on a very dim red LED. They wake up...and start eating & spread out like during the day. My question is around lighting. Is this bad to have then exposed to light this much or good in that it gives them more time of the day to eat? Just don't know the circadian rhythm's of the quail and what is good vs harmful other than getting more natural light in the fall for increased egg laying.

2.) could you give more detail on the 1:1 breeder cage recommendation? Wouldn't a 2:1 produce more eggs?

Thanks again!

Bobwhites are seasonal breeders/layers. Having supplemental lighting year round will only shorten the life span of the quail, not so much for the males but the females will suffer.
If your just wanting eggs just hatch out more females for that purpose.

A 1:1 breeder cage is just that, 1 male and 1 female, regardless of the area it encloses. Bob's don't do well in small spaces like most 1:1 breeder cages are 1 sq.ft. they need at least 2 sq.ft. per bird.
If all your looking at is egg production, I'd recommend Coturnix quail. Bob's, typically will lay between 20 to 30 eggs per season, some may lay more, others less.

As far as leaving a red light on, I wouldn't leave it on all night, maybe an hour after you roll them inside the garage. That way they can settle down from being moved back inside, or you could move them inside before it gets dark.

Oh, another thing, letting that rat snake go....it will be back, until there are no more quail to be had! their kinda like racoons, except on their bellys. Fix that gape in the cage.

 

[Bee Creek Quail]