Breeding miniature Batam from regular

[RACHELLE85]

Earl last year we bought a quad of Wellsummers. They laid well and were very fertile so we hatched out around 40-50. They are all about 4-5 months right now, and out of the batches there was a male and female dwarf. The adults are normal and all pretty standard looking except one hen has a droop tail which we’re are going to get rid of.
The affected offspring is normal in appearance and don’t seem to be thyrogenous dwarf(the strange looking kind) they just have smaller leg size and bit condensed look to their bodies. So if I breed them to each other have I created my own miniature bantams. And what do I do from there? Just keep heavy culling and breed them down in size and appearance to get that nice upright tail look that mostBantams have? Should I breed in an outside Wellsummer bantam? I don’t really want to do that though, I’d like to just breed it down myself if I can. Any tips are appreciated! And if I am correct there are three types of bantams, True, miniature and developed. So would I have miniature? And could that become developed if I breed them down?

 

[Amer]

What do you mean by developed?

 

[MysteryChicken]

Earl last year we bought a quad of Wellsummers. They laid well and were very fertile so we hatched out around 40-50. They are all about 4-5 months right now, and out of the batches there was a male and female dwarf. The adults are normal and all pretty standard looking except one hen has a droop tail which we’re are going to get rid of.
The affected offspring is normal in appearance and don’t seem to be thyrogenous dwarf(the strange looking kind) they just have smaller leg size and bit condensed look to their bodies. So if I breed them to each other have I created my own miniature bantams. And what do I do from there? Just keep heavy culling and breed them down in size and appearance to get that nice upright tail look that mostBantams have? Should I breed in an outside Wellsummer bantam? I don’t really want to do that though, I’d like to just breed it down myself if I can. Any tips are appreciated! And if I am correct there are three types of bantams, True, miniature and developed. So would I have miniature? And could that become developed if I breed them down?

Most bantams are produced by a sexlinked mutation. It's Sexlinked Recessive Dwarfism for alot of bantams.

True Bantams are Bantams only made by bantams that have no Largefowl counterparts.

Bantams with Largefowl counterparts are often made with the mutation above.

Miniatures can be made two ways, by crossing in Bantam into a Largefowl line, or breeding only from smaller birds in the Largefowl line reducing size gradually. These would be developed.

 

[MysteryChicken]

What do you mean by developed?

Bred down small.

 

[Amer]

I would define your bantams as dwarf large fowl not miniatures. My brother has miniature Welsummer bantams, to the standard of the large fowl but at a smaller size. They do not have the correct egg color, and they are too big. Small Welsummers like yours would correct the egg color but they wouldn't help the size.
If developed means bred down from small yours are always developed no matter what, correct?

 

[MysteryChicken]

Earl last year we bought a quad of Wellsummers. They laid well and were very fertile so we hatched out around 40-50. They are all about 4-5 months right now, and out of the batches there was a male and female dwarf. The adults are normal and all pretty standard looking except one hen has a droop tail which we’re are going to get rid of.
The affected offspring is normal in appearance and don’t seem to be thyrogenous dwarf(the strange looking kind) they just have smaller leg size and bit condensed look to their bodies. So if I breed them to each other have I created my own miniature bantams. And what do I do from there? Just keep heavy culling and breed them down in size and appearance to get that nice upright tail look that mostBantams have? Should I breed in an outside Wellsummer bantam? I don’t really want to do that though, I’d like to just breed it down myself if I can. Any tips are appreciated! And if I am correct there are three types of bantams, True, miniature and developed. So would I have miniature? And could that become developed if I breed them down?

You have pictures of the dwarves?

I have a type of dwarf that's infertile(Doesn't Lay Eggs), she's short, & stout.

 

[RACHELLE85]

Yeah basically that’s what I’m trying to find out is what to define them by. So if I wanted to work on this pair and maybe set those dwarf genes what would I call them? And so wellsumers are a sex link because they are chipmunk. Here’s a pic of my two roosters

You have pictures of the dwarves?

I have a type of dwarf that's infertile(Doesn't Lay Eggs), she's short, & stout.

You have pictures of the dwarves?

I have a type of dwarf that's infertile(Doesn't Lay Eggs), she's short, & stout.

You have pictures of the dwarves?

I have a type of dwarf that's infertile(Doesn't Lay Eggs), she's short, & stout.

Mine haven’t gotten to the eggs laying age yet so I’m hoping they are fertile. I know there’s one type of dwarfism called thyrogenous dwarfism and it can come with a lot of health issues such as infertility and parrot beak. I know a lot about genetics when it comes to regular birds as I’m working on some of my own game lines but when it comes to bantams and how you get them, it’s all new to me!

 

[MysteryChicken]

Yeah basically that’s what I’m trying to find out is what to define them by. So if I wanted to work on this pair and maybe set those dwarf genes what would I call them? And so wellsumers are a sex link because they are chipmunk. Here’s a pic of my two roostersView attachment 3920448




Mine haven’t gotten to the eggs laying age yet so I’m hoping they are fertile. I know there’s one type of dwarfism called thyrogenous dwarfism and it can come with a lot of health issues such as infertility and parrot beak. I know a lot about genetics when it comes to regular birds as I’m working on some of my own game lines but when it comes to bantams and how you get them, it’s all new to me!

Thyrogenous Dwarfism is actually fatal. Offspring live no longer then 7-12 weeks of age.
Had a Silkie with Thyrogenous Dwarfism once. Died at 7 weeks exactly.

Here's my Dwarf Malay Hen.

 

[Amer]

Yeah basically that’s what I’m trying to find out is what to define them by. So if I wanted to work on this pair and maybe set those dwarf genes what would I call them? And so wellsumers are a sex link because they are chipmunk. Here’s a pic of my two roostersView attachment 3920448




Mine haven’t gotten to the eggs laying age yet so I’m hoping they are fertile. I know there’s one type of dwarfism called thyrogenous dwarfism and it can come with a lot of health issues such as infertility and parrot beak. I know a lot about genetics when it comes to regular birds as I’m working on some of my own game lines but when it comes to bantams and how you get them, it’s all new to me!

Wow, that is so small, probably the size of our larger bantams.
True bantams: bantam breeds with no largefowl counterpart
Miniatures: bantam breeds with a largefowl counterpart. Miniatures can be created from other bantam breeds, breeding the largefowl smaller, or crossing the largefowl breed with bantams.
Curiously, some forms of dwarfism can be beneficial. Some are bad. You never know.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Yeah basically that’s what I’m trying to find out is what to define them by. So if I wanted to work on this pair and maybe set those dwarf genes what would I call them? And so wellsumers are a sex link because they are chipmunk. Here’s a pic of my two roostersView attachment 3920448




Mine haven’t gotten to the eggs laying age yet so I’m hoping they are fertile. I know there’s one type of dwarfism called thyrogenous dwarfism and it can come with a lot of health issues such as infertility and parrot beak. I know a lot about genetics when it comes to regular birds as I’m working on some of my own game lines but when it comes to bantams and how you get them, it’s all new to me!

Could just call them Dwarves.