Call duck hatch rates and general incubation issues?

[Wishapup]

I live in an area that is always very humid, so I do not add any water until the last 2-3 days. My incubator still maintains 30-35% humidity with zero water. 45-50 would be too high for my ducklings.
I wrote a humidity guide, it’s in my signature block below in red, that I’ve been told is pretty good, if I do say so myself.
(FYI If you are on a phone, you may have to turn your phone sideways to see signature blocks)

Hey I did I read your humidity article a while back! I'm sure many others have appreciated that resource! Thanks for taking the time to make that.

Why do you say 45% would be too high for your ducklings?
At 99 F, wouldn't your 45% RH be the same as my 45% RH?
You would just have to add less water to get there, if my bator was at 25% when dry and yours ran at 35% dry. What am I missing?

These call ducklings are so cute. I definitely need to figure out how I can hatch lots of them

I believe I might be able to help you with this issue. This issue isn't a call duck issue but an incubation issue for many types of avians.

I first ran into a problem like yours one year where I had a mama duck in my back yard with my other ducks. She was hatching out a full cluster of eggs. The eggs hatched and within 2 days ALL of her ducklings were dead. Just like that. There was no reason for them to die. I had food, water. I gave them heat. I even risked bringing them inside.

...

A couple months passed.

And then I realized the feed mill was doing cheap feed. The egg production with the other ducks was below what it should be and frustrated easily. It wasn't consistent. I had all their egg production even stop for a time, at a time of year when it shouldn't have.

So I began re-thinking the nutrition on the feed. The feed from laying mash by itself isn't enough. The tell is how fragile the egg production can be interrupted. And this means if you don't boost the nutrition that even if the ducks can produce eggs,... those eggs can be so weak that whatever grows in them won't be strong enough to live. (THis is what likely happened to you.) The tell on this is that the egg production in the ducks can be sporadic if the nutrition isn't quite there.

And you can also test this by boosting the nutrition and seeing the egg production change. And by doing this, not just the egg production changes, but the yolk changes to deeper red or orange colors instead of just pale yellow. And also, the eggs will be stronger so that hatchlings hatched from higher nutrition will survive the infant stage better.

...

I've also found that the entire first 7 days of ducklings/chicks, etc they are ridiculously fragile in that first week. A lot can go wrong.

...

I believe thinking about this and how to boost the nutrition while the eggs are being produced will help you figure out how to make it work better next time. And I encourage you to not give up but keep trying. Some of these things just happen even when you didn't do anything wrong.

@nao57, thanks for taking the time to reply!

Nutrition is really important. In my case, I am 99% sure that nutrition is not the main problem because the duck eggs I am hatching come from 3 different farms. The farms are not close to each other and don't feed the same feed. I also have no duckling mortality. The babies that do hatch seem pretty healthy and strong. But, I haven't set enough call ducks to really assess my hatch rate well.

I can see that nutrition was probably the issue in your situation! Great job problem-solving to figure that out. I appreciate you sharing your experience, and thanks for the encouragement to keep trying!

I have a batch of chickens hatching right now and they appear to be doing OK. I hear a LOT of chirping in there. At least it seems I can hatch chickens.

 

[nao57]

Hey I did I read your humidity article a while back! I'm sure many others have appreciated that resource! Thanks for taking the time to make that.

Why do you say 45% would be too high for your ducklings?
At 99 F, wouldn't your 45% RH be the same as my 45% RH?
You would just have to add less water to get there, if my bator was at 25% when dry and yours ran at 35% dry. What am I missing?

These call ducklings are so cute. I definitely need to figure out how I can hatch lots of them

@nao57, thanks for taking the time to reply!

Nutrition is really important. In my case, I am 99% sure that nutrition is not the main problem because the duck eggs I am hatching come from 3 different farms. The farms are not close to each other and don't feed the same feed. I also have no duckling mortality. The babies that do hatch seem pretty healthy and strong. But, I haven't set enough call ducks to really assess my hatch rate well.

I can see that nutrition was probably the issue in your situation! Great job problem-solving to figure that out. I appreciate you sharing your experience, and thanks for the encouragement to keep trying!

I have a batch of chickens hatching right now and they appear to be doing OK. I hear a LOT of chirping in there. At least it seems I can hatch chickens.

I don't think you were listening. The duckling mortality rate of the first couple days is DIRECTLY correlated with whether or not they can be strong enough to hatch alive. That's what that whole point is. They aren't separate variables. And we've found this from doing several years of experiments.

The mills also cheat on the feeds. There's sometimes things in there that shouldn't be there as fluff.

Now this is a response to a line you said to correct a misunderstanding. But I'm not upset at you. And you are free to reject advise and go your own way. You aren't obligated to listen.

 

[Wishapup]

I don't think you were listening. The duckling mortality rate of the first couple days is DIRECTLY correlated with whether or not they can be strong enough to hatch alive. That's what that whole point is. They aren't separate variables. And we've found this from doing several years of experiments.

Sorry, to clarify, you had mentioned having all of your mama duck's ducklings dying after a successful hatch. I just meant I haven't experienced that problem. Only deaths in the egg.

 

[WVduckchick]

Hey I did I read your humidity article a while back! I'm sure many others have appreciated that resource! Thanks for taking the time to make that.

Why do you say 45% would be too high for your ducklings?
At 99 F, wouldn't your 45% RH be the same as my 45% RH?
You would just have to add less water to get there, if my bator was at 25% when dry and yours ran at 35% dry. What am I missing?

These call ducklings are so cute. I definitely need to figure out how I can hatch lots of them

@nao57, thanks for taking the time to reply!

Nutrition is really important. In my case, I am 99% sure that nutrition is not the main problem because the duck eggs I am hatching come from 3 different farms. The farms are not close to each other and don't feed the same feed. I also have no duckling mortality. The babies that do hatch seem pretty healthy and strong. But, I haven't set enough call ducks to really assess my hatch rate well.

I can see that nutrition was probably the issue in your situation! Great job problem-solving to figure that out. I appreciate you sharing your experience, and thanks for the encouragement to keep trying!

I have a batch of chickens hatching right now and they appear to be doing OK. I hear a LOT of chirping in there. At least it seems I can hatch chickens.

Different areas regular humidity somewhat dictates the egg shell and bloom (in addition to other factors, feed, calcium, all the other normal stuff). So 45% humidity for my eggs would likely fail to lose enough moisture, and the ducklings would drown. 45% for you could be different, depending on your shell thickness/bloom/etc.

One of my girls just hatched all these. The only egg left in the nest never developed.

 

[Wishapup]

Different areas regular humidity somewhat dictates the egg shell and bloom (in addition to other factors, feed, calcium, all the other normal stuff). So 45% humidity for my eggs would likely fail to lose enough moisture, and the ducklings would drown. 45% for you could be different, depending on your shell thickness/bloom/etc.

One of my girls just hatched all these. The only egg left in the nest never developed.
View attachment 3863958

Okay, that makes sense. So maybe what I need to do is keep closer tabs on air cell size throughout incubation for the next batch in hopes of figuring out my ideal humidity for call ducks.

I just had a great chick hatch, 13 out of 16.
I'll try some runner ducks next month and how they go compared to the calls.

Edit: picture from today of the 5 ducklings that did hatch! They are so friendly and curious.

 

[shawluvsbirds]

This is my first real attempt with call ducks.

For this batch I had 12 eggs start. 45-50% humidity, temp consistent 99.5, in an auto-turner.

10/12 made it to day 23. All looked great with movement, veins, and good air cells. Moved them to my hatcher with 65-70% humidity.

I had 5 pipped by yesterday evening (day 25). All hatched by this evening day 26. Only one required a bit of assistance (foot completely over head).

I got suspicious that I was seeing no movement or pips from the other 5, so I candled. No movement, no beaks in air cells, no chirping. I verified that they were dead by opening small holes in each air cell. NONE had internally pipped. Meaning, safety holes would not have helped here.

I'll wait another day or two before fully opening them and checking for malpositions etc.

Here are my questions:

1. I've heard that call ducks are hard to hatch. BUT from what I've heard, they usually can internally pip on their own before assistance is required. Mine didn't internally pip. So what could have gone wrong? I can see a couple not being able to pip the membrane, but 50%??

2. For those of you who hatch call ducks, what are your hatch rates?

3. Extra stuff like cooling eggs for 15 minutes twice a day, misting the eggs. Do these things really make a significant difference in hatch rate? Do they have any impact on viability AFTER making it to lockdown?

I've had some issues with full-term deaths in many of my chicken eggs (purchased from different farms). I'm hoping this isn't the same problem. My last two batches had 80-100% viable at lockdown but 50-60% hatch rates. Full term chicks dead in shell, mostly in the right position, sometimes partial yolk absorption but nothing visibly wrong, not internally pipped. Plus one chick that randomly zipped all the way around and then died - again, nothing visibly wrong with it.

Humidity and temp have been good so I'm stumped. I purchased Govee thermometers for continuous data recording that show I am not having temp dips or spikes. Years ago I had hatch rates in the 80s and 90s with this same Hovabator. But just in case there was something weird with it, I switched to incubating in my hatcher (a different Hovabator) for this batch. It had just successfully hatched an emu after 49 days so I trusted it. Annd here we are with exactly 5 cute ducklings and exactly 5 FULL TERM dead eggs, so I don't know what to think.

Any discussion appreciated. Thank you

I have had calls since 2016, and have some of the same bloodline as @WVduckchick

Between the two of us I think we've tried every trick in the book to increase our hatch rates.
My experiecnces have been pretty much the same as hers. One thing I've learned is to go off the air cell growth to determine how much humidity i need rather than focusing on keeping the bator at a certain percent. Humidity in MO is all over the place so one time i may have to add some water and the next time the humidity may border on being too high without adding any at all.

As far as cooling, I like to candle frequently so I suppose they get some cooling from that. I've tried being completely hands off and that did not make one iota of difference.
I only mist if i feel like air cells are not big enough toward the end if hatching.

Having them make it all the way to lockdown then having them up and die before pipping is a common problem i have with incubating.
It makes sense nutrition could play a part in that.
But it does not explain why broody mamas can hatch almost every egg without this issue when being fed the same.
Incubating calls is just a gamble imo.
Mama ducks do it best!

Don’t have much time to answer right now, but my call hatch rates vary. Always seems like I lose a few in the last couple of days, some before internal pip, some after. No real clues as to why.
I can say that my hens have better hatch rates. Sometimes they hatch 100% (though I usually remove early quitters). They do occasionally have late quitters.
I’ve tried different methods, I don’t mist or cool down, because it never seemed to be a benefit, but it’s hard to tell for sure. I also have different age ranges, as I’ve now had calls for 8+ years, so it could have to do with first-year layers, older layers, etc.
Honestly, I’ve mostly just chalked it up to being a Call thing.

I believe I might be able to help you with this issue. This issue isn't a call duck issue but an incubation issue for many types of avians.

I first ran into a problem like yours one year where I had a mama duck in my back yard with my other ducks. She was hatching out a full cluster of eggs. The eggs hatched and within 2 days ALL of her ducklings were dead. Just like that. There was no reason for them to die. I had food, water. I gave them heat. I even risked bringing them inside.

...

A couple months passed.

And then I realized the feed mill was doing cheap feed. The egg production with the other ducks was below what it should be and frustrated easily. It wasn't consistent. I had all their egg production even stop for a time, at a time of year when it shouldn't have.

So I began re-thinking the nutrition on the feed. The feed from laying mash by itself isn't enough. The tell is how fragile the egg production can be interrupted. And this means if you don't boost the nutrition that even if the ducks can produce eggs,... those eggs can be so weak that whatever grows in them won't be strong enough to live. (THis is what likely happened to you.) The tell on this is that the egg production in the ducks can be sporadic if the nutrition isn't quite there.

And you can also test this by boosting the nutrition and seeing the egg production change. And by doing this, not just the egg production changes, but the yolk changes to deeper red or orange colors instead of just pale yellow. And also, the eggs will be stronger so that hatchlings hatched from higher nutrition will survive the infant stage better.

...

I've also found that the entire first 7 days of ducklings/chicks, etc they are ridiculously fragile in that first week. A lot can go wrong.

...

I believe thinking about this and how to boost the nutrition while the eggs are being produced will help you figure out how to make it work better next time. And I encourage you to not give up but keep trying. Some of these things just happen even when you didn't do anything wrong.

Okay, that makes sense. So maybe what I need to do is keep closer tabs on air cell size throughout incubation for the next batch in hopes of figuring out my ideal humidity for call ducks.

I just had a great chick hatch, 13 out of 16.
I'll try some runner ducks next month and how they go compared to the calls.

Edit: picture from today of the 5 ducklings that did hatch! They are so friendly and curious.
View attachment 3864044

 

[shawluvsbirds]

I'd like to add, I have incubated plenty of Cayuga duck eggs that have done fine. Incubated the same as the calls, they hatch on their own. My Cayugas are fed the same as my calls.
I think it is a great idea to boost nutrition for your flock in the weeks prior to gathering eggs for incubating. You want strong healthy birds that produce strong healthy ducklings!

But it has been my experience that sometimes no matter what I try it seems to be a call duck thang.

 

[Wishapup]

Update to this discussion.

I did a 100% dry hatch with 21 call duck eggs, averaging 25-30% humidity throughout incubation.
For the first 2 weeks or so, I kept them on their sides and hand-turned. For the last 10 days, they were upright in the auto-turner.
18 made it to lockdown.
Of those, 17 hatched without assistance.
Of note, these eggs came from a farm I had tried in the past with little success.

 

[nao57]

Update to this discussion.

I did a 100% dry hatch with 21 call duck eggs, averaging 25-30% humidity throughout incubation.
For the first 2 weeks or so, I kept them on their sides and hand-turned. For the last 10 days, they were upright in the auto-turner.
18 made it to lockdown.
Of those, 17 hatched without assistance.
Of note, these eggs came from a farm I had tried in the past with little success.

Very good success rate! You did good. Not a lot of people can get a hatch rate that good.

 

[MrsWinterWheat]

Update to this discussion.

I did a 100% dry hatch with 21 call duck eggs, averaging 25-30% humidity throughout incubation.
For the first 2 weeks or so, I kept them on their sides and hand-turned. For the last 10 days, they were upright in the auto-turner.
18 made it to lockdown.
Of those, 17 hatched without assistance.
Of note, these eggs came from a farm I had tried in the past with little success.

Oh that is amazing!! Well done!