Daytime rats eating chicken feed. Not allowed to use rodenticide in my area due to owls, Hawks, coyotes and domestic dogs of course.

[LaFleche]

But you are depriving your chickens of needed nutrition, slowing growth for broiler birds and limiting egg production for layers.

Well, what you obviously are not taking into consideration with your above cited claim:

I have been a breeder of various chicken breeds for more than 25 years raising my various flocks on many acres without any respiratory issues or need for antibiotics whatsoever.
Most of my hens go broody several times per year and raise their chicks just fine.
The weight of my processed birds is rather the upper end of the respective breed standard, so no starving for my birds.

And I do not and will never keep or 'raise' any broiler or similar poor creatures.

So you have a real problem claiming lemon oil is a repellent when they can dose rats with it for weeks on end with no harm.

What I did was sharing my experience here after spraying natural lemon oil. There were no more rats seen for several weeks after spraying, so they (my local resident rats) obviously disliked the scent.

I have never dosed any rats feeding them essential oils.

But of course you can get them accustomed to almost anything, even poisons, by feeding them minimal doses.

Almost forgot to mention:
My 'poor and deprived birds' tend to live up to 8-10 years if not butchered earlier.


So, better reign in your hasty assumptions/allegations and tread a little lighter dishing out.

 

[Al Gerhart]

I certainly don't discredit your long history of raising chickens, that isn't the point. Not having feed before the hens does lower your feed bill. But, chickens are browsers, eating a little often over the daylight hours.

"Abstract--In mammals, time-restricted feeding (TRF) with no caloric restriction provides health benefits and extends longevity, usually with a minor (∼3%) or no reduction in total food consumption. In the current study, a TRF regimen of 6 h free access to food (08:00–14:00 h) was applied to Leghorn chickens from 25 to 86 weeks of age; control birds ate freely during the light hours (06:00–20:00 h). Unexpectedly, the TRF-treated birds consumed, on average, 11.7% less food than the controls. This was manifested by an average reduction of 9.6% in body weight, 2.6-fold in visceral fat accumulation, and 6.5% in egg weight. Hen-housed egg production was reduced by 3.6% in the TRF group compared with the control, along the first 40 weeks of the follow-up (P < 0.05), and changed into a tendency of 0.7% higher egg production thereafter. Several parameters of egg quality showed significant improvement (P < 0.05) in the TRF group compared with the controls. A comparison of diurnal patterns of feed consumption revealed a higher rate of hourly consumption in the TRF group and increased consumption before dark in the control group. In conclusion, the reduced feed intake in response to the TRF treatment and loss in visceral fat accumulation supports the lack of a strong adipostat activity in chickens and different appetite regulation mechanisms compared with mammals. Therefore, future TRF studies in chickens should be adjusted by extending the ad libitum time window. The lower feed intake by the TRF-treated chickens compared with the ad libitum-fed controls seems to reduce the efficiency of egg production. Nevertheless, the improved egg quality and persistence of egg lay at the older age suggest that similarly to mammals, the TRF treatment delayed at least some of the negative impacts associated with advanced age."

The key takeaway is a nearly 10% reduction in weight, 2.6 times the visceral fat, and a 3.6% drop in egg production. The abstract does state that the hens will lay longer into their old age, with less feed efficiency, and better egg quality. If one is keeping chickens as pets there is some validity to starving a flock by only feeding twice a day. I think the same would be found for nearly all living things including humans.

So, yes, restricting feed to flocks isn't optimal unless you are raising pets. For most of us, raising chickens needs to make financial sense nor are most of us in a position to be able to hand feed twice a day.

Your second set of points. No one disputes that your rats disappeared after you sprayed lemon oil and started feeding twice a day. But the scientific studies show that it wasn't the smell of lemon oil.

The use of lemon oil in the studies wasn't acclimating them to "poison", it was showing that lemon oil increases their learning abilities and that indeed they prefer nest boxes without lemon oil. But you could soak the feed and the ground around a feeder with lemon oil and it wouldn't prevent a hungry rat from eating. The rats would prefer you not do that though, that was proven in the studies.

And scientific studies quoted are not "hasty assumptions" nor is pointing out flaws in posted advice "dishing" anything out but simple facts and truth.

It is just that everyone would be better served if they checked out the old wives tales before posting them. A healthy discussion is a good thing, I for one was surprised to learn that lemon oil caused some rats to learn faster. Strange and useless but interesting to know.

 

[LaFleche]

But, chickens are browsers, eating a little often over the daylight hours.

And browse or forage is exactly what mine are doing every day from dawn til dusk on several acres in addition to feeding them twice a day.

The abstract does state that the hens will lay longer into their old age, with less feed efficiency, and better egg quality.

I cannot confirm the " less feed efficiency", but that will of course depend on the kind of feed given and on the breeds and their overall living conditions as well.

there is some validity to starving a flock by only feeding twice a day.

See above, mine are foraging on many acres ( lush meadows with herbs and flowers, bushes and woodland) in between their feedings which contains animal protein.

But I assume that the hens taking part in the experiments were not that lucky.

For most of us, raising chickens needs to make financial sense nor are most of us in a position to be able to hand feed twice a day.

Of course there has to be a reasonable ROI for most of us and yes, not everyone is in a position to feed twice a day or let their birds roam on several acres.

So there is no 'one size fits all' in chicken keeping and our experiences can differ widely as we live in various countries on different continents having different breeds or as many here on BYC keep hybrids sold by hatcheries or farm stores that are kept in rather tight conditions which would probably start to cannibalize each other if feed were not available all day long.

A healthy discussion is a good thing,

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Al Gerhart]

And browse or forage is exactly what mine are doing every day from dawn til dusk on several acres in addition to feeding them twice a day.


I cannot confirm the " less feed efficiency", but that will of course depend on the kind of feed given and on the breeds and their overall living conditions as well.


See above, mine are foraging on many acres ( lush meadows with herbs and flowers, bushes and woodland) in between their feedings which contains animal protein.

But I assume that the hens taking part in the experiments were not that lucky.



Of course there has to be a reasonable ROI for most of us and yes, not everyone is in a position to feed twice a day or let their birds roam on several acres.

So there is no 'one size fits all' in chicken keeping and our experiences can differ widely as we live in various countries on different continents having different breeds or as many here on BYC keep hybrids sold by hatcheries or farm stores that are kept in rather tight conditions which would probably start to cannibalize each other if feed were not available all day long.

I agree wholeheartedly.

"And browse or forage is exactly what mine are doing every day from dawn til dusk on several acres in addition to feeding them twice a day."

That makes all the difference in the world.

And you are right, one size never fits all.

Good discussion!

 

[McChooky]

Domestic rats make great pets, way better than the other 'pocket pets' more people buy.
Wild rats, not so much, and definitely not welcome here! As we have bantams and standard sized birds, the treadle feeders aren't useful for us.
One episode with rats in our coop was one too many!
Mary

I put them at the bottom of the list.I do like mice though lol

 

[McChooky]

Spraying natural lemon oil around the outside of the coops and covered runs as well as feeding my birds twice a day instead of leaving feeders out all day long discourages rats and mice.

Some people claim that mixing red pepper flakes with the feed can help to keep the rodents away.

Feeding your chickens the way you do encourages them to forage for food and deters rats.I give you a big thumbs up for that!