Fecal Float Questions

[jolenesdad]

I’ve started learning to do my own fecal floats. I’ve got a couple of questions and I’m hoping someone may have advice or help or additional links and info... (ie @casportpony ) or even help IDing (ie @Sue Gremlin) @KsKingBee thoughts?

I have five or six symptomatic birds. Potential reduction in egg laying, potential lethargic behavior (but it is summer for both of those), and messy bottoms. I’ve reduced protein and bathed them and they’re still messy. My flock free ranges.

I’ve done five floats so far. One was clean. two had a small load of eggs (80-100/gram), and two had high counts (1800 & 1950/gram).

the eggs are either round worm or cecal worms, and I’m having a hard time differentiating. I ordered a lens with a scale to measure. the eggs are measuring 85x50 um. Which seems closer to Ascarid egg size? But to me they do look fairly parrallel and maybe closer to heteraksis. I also included one photo with a rounder egg, the only egg this shape on all the slides but also made me think it could be roundworms

in addition while doing The fecals I found worms. Not large like typical roundworm photos in manure that I’ve seen. Small, like the description of tapeworm segments. I believe I isolated a segment and got it on a slide. Here are my photos. Is this a tapeworm segment?

worm(??) is at 40x mag. It’s about 2/3 cm long and it measures 2 or 3 mm on the scope at various points. (I don’t know my math right away for what that measurement is at 40x magnification.)

Egg is 100x magnification.

 

[Chicalina]

I may be being a bit obtuse, and you certainly seem to be really into your science on this. But why is it necessary to go to all these lengths when you can just give them a broad spectrum dewormer medicine, disinfect the coop and run and be done with it?

 

[jolenesdad]

I may be being a bit obtuse, and you certainly seem to be really into your science on this. But why is it necessary to go to all these lengths when you can just give them a broad spectrum dewormer medicine, disinfect the coop and run and be done with it?

Well, I also have horses so I’m trying to learn. With any livestock you really should be doing a fecal float before and after deworming protocols. But that’s really expensive so I end up doing fecal floats once or twice a year on my horses. Resistance is a huge deal with worms in all livestock. You give them a wormer for something they don’t need, and there’s residues left in their system. Future bugs use that to build resistance to deworming medication.

if you know exactly which worms you have and don’t have, you can use more specific medications targeting to just that parasite. In the long run, if you stay on top of it, you can be deworming the “high shedding” animals more often as the problems develop and not even have to use wormers on those without the worms.

it may still fit in my scenario that a broad spectrum is worth it in this specific instance.

 

[Chicalina]

That's very interesting. I have noticed a high resistance to dewormers here by BYCers, rather than by the worms, lol. I don’t understand the reticence to use medication when necessary. Here in the UK, we don't try and identify which worm it is, we just treat with a dewormer because it kills all the worms. I buy over the counter, but if that didn't work after a couple of treatments, then I'd consult my vet.

I've never floated faeces!!!

Luckily I have never had a worm problem that persisted beyond normal meds. I also use Vermex as a preventative and it does fine.

Best of luck to you. I do like a bit of science myself!

 

[aart]

But why is it necessary to go to all these lengths when you can just give them a broad spectrum dewormer medicine, disinfect the coop and run and be done with it?

Because knowing what might be there is better than indiscriminate medication,
especially when you don't want to 'eat' medication in your eggs.
Because knowing a count/load of what is there better than indiscriminate medication.
Because how do you know if medication worked or not,
or even if you need it in the first place,
as most worms are not visible to the naked eye.

 

[Sunshine_Chick]

I’ve started learning to do my own fecal floats. I’ve got a couple of questions and I’m hoping someone may have advice or help or additional links and info... (ie @casportpony ) or even help IDing (ie @Sue Gremlin) @KsKingBee thoughts?

I have five or six symptomatic birds. Potential reduction in egg laying, potential lethargic behavior (but it is summer for both of those), and messy bottoms. I’ve reduced protein and bathed them and they’re still messy. My flock free ranges.

I’ve done five floats so far. One was clean. two had a small load of eggs (80-100/gram), and two had high counts (1800 & 1950/gram).

the eggs are either round worm or cecal worms, and I’m having a hard time differentiating. I ordered a lens with a scale to measure. the eggs are measuring 85x50 um. Which seems closer to Ascarid egg size? But to me they do look fairly parrallel and maybe closer to heteraksis. I also included one photo with a rounder egg, the only egg this shape on all the slides but also made me think it could be roundworms

in addition while doing The fecals I found worms. Not large like typical roundworm photos in manure that I’ve seen. Small, like the description of tapeworm segments. I believe I isolated a segment and got it on a slide. Here are my photos. Is this a tapeworm segment?

worm(??) is at 40x mag. It’s about 2/3 cm long and it measures 2 or 3 mm on the scope at various points. (I don’t know my math right away for what that measurement is at 40x magnification.)

Egg is 100x magnification.

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Looks like round worms to me. Years back I worked at a Vet office & did floats daily. Sure looks it to me, but then didn't do fowl so don't know how cecal worms would present.

 

[Chicalina]

Because knowing what might be there is better than indiscriminate medication,
especially when you don't want to 'eat' medication in your eggs.
Because knowing a count/load of what is there better than indiscriminate medication.
Because how do you know if medication worked or not,
or even if you need it in the first place,
as most worms are not visible to the naked eye.

I deworm and deflea my dog and my cat regularly as part of a preventive schedule. My chickens too. What I use doesn't require egg withdrawal. If the OP suspected worms (because of observed symptoms), and found eggs then is there a different dewormer applicable for each distinct worm type, or would a broad one do the job for all? I wouldn't call that indiscriminate or unnecessary.

I am no expert or vet. Just genuinely curious. I salute the diligence too!

 

[aart]

I deworm and deflea my dog and my cat regularly as part of a preventive schedule. My chickens too. What I use doesn't require egg withdrawal.

I did some preventatives on the dogs.
What chicken wormer do you use?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I deworm and deflea my dog and my cat regularly as part of a preventive schedule. My chickens too. What I use doesn't require egg withdrawal. If the OP suspected worms (because of observed symptoms), and found eggs then is there a different dewormer applicable for each distinct worm type, or would a broad one do the job for all? I wouldn't call that indiscriminate or unnecessary.

I am no expert or vet. Just genuinely curious. I salute the diligence too!

Not all wormers work on all species of worms.
It is also a good idea to change anthelmintics from time to time. Using the same one over and over will definitely create resistant worms.

 

[KsKingBee]

Your pics are of cecal worms, treatment is the same for roundworms. One day dose followed in ten days with another one day dose. I prefer Valbazen (albendazole) or Safeguard (fenbendazole).