Great Pyrenees behavior

[rockingbearanch]

I have a 4 month old Pyr. He is by far the most hyper animal we have owned. He cannot get through two commands without losing attention and rolling around on the ground. He continues to prove untrustworthy even though he was born at a farm with chickens and turkeys. I know many people think they are wonderful but I don't see it in this particular dog. I've had labs, poodles, huskies, chows, aussies, etc. The Pyr is the least intelligent. He is beginning to growl when fed. He walks well on a lead (95% of the time) but when he feels like pulling he will not respond to commands. He is constantly all over any person or pet near enough to pounce. As he grows this is going to become a major issue.

My question is will he outgrow this? Will he calm down with age? Will he always need supervision? I've lost two adults to rough handling and up to a dozen chicks were ate. They free range and the dog is on a run or walking on a lead. I tie him to me all day yet his manners are no better than the day we got him. His size now means I can't get anything done and I know he's not going to improve if I leave him alone on a run.

Any suggestions?

 

[chooks4life]

I have a 4 month old Pyr. He is by far the most hyper animal we have owned. He cannot get through two commands without losing attention and rolling around on the ground.

Is this actually losing attention, or is this deliberate disobedience? I'd think it's the latter, but it might not be.

In the pups I've known and watched grow up, if they had a habitual behavior they exhibited instead of obeying you, it was actually deliberate and not due to short attention spans. It's more seeing what upfront disobedience they can show you to your face and get away with, delaying tactics before obeying which gradually extends into full blown disobedience.

This is different from all the usual things like actually getting distracted. But rolling on the ground is not the same as being distracted by something, it's a very deliberate behavior.

One of our dogs would always very slowly take the time to scratch his ear before listening to the command. You could provoke a slow and luxurious ear-scratching just by telling him to do anything, literally he would lean back and raise the leg the instant you spoke.

(No, in case anyone thinks something was wrong with his ear, he only did it when asked to do something, and at no other time during the day would you see him scratch that ear, an it wasn't real scratching either, very symbolic gesturing; if he actually scratched his ear as often as he made the gesture he'd have made himself bleed).

He did not turn out well, in fact he turned out very badly, wanting to attack people, and we had to get rid of him, whereas his sister who was raised the same turned out great. Big difference being: she was willing. He never wanted to do anything with or for us, even though he had great working dog genetics and intelligence. She was the same but willing, and what a world of difference that makes.

If it's "the dog's way or the highway", then the dog isn't 'turning out' and if they have no willingness to obey, you have a pretty worthless and self-centered pet, not a worker, not a companion. You cannot put willingness into them, and it's even more of an issue when you need him to be an autonomous worker you can trust alone.

Still, he's only young... But from my experience the signs show young, and don't change, and the dog experts I've talked with who train dogs to work do not waste time on pups that behave like this. If he's no good now, he's better off being rehomed to be a pet.

Just a random idea, though, maybe he's not pretending and he actually is that dim, and the rolling around is his way of expressing his confusion. In which case changing training methods may work better. Some people rave about clicker training, you could try that if you haven't, I think it sounds ideal for the less intelligent animals. Still, if you have him to be a LGD but you keep him tethered to you, I don't see how clicker training or any training could make him bond to the other animals and understand it's his job to look after him. I can see why you have him tethered to you, though, since he's not trustworthy. It's a conundrum.

He continues to prove untrustworthy even though he was born at a farm with chickens and turkeys.

What sort of stock did you get him from?

Did his parents 'work' or were they pets?

You can get great Maremmas here, but you can also get worthless pet-bred Maremmas, who aren't good pets and aren't any use with other animals either. There's always people breeding working dogs to be pets and while some work out, many of them don't and they are some of the most useless dogs out there, terrible pets and unable to work.

I know many people think they are wonderful but I don't see it in this particular dog. I've had labs, poodles, huskies, chows, aussies, etc. The Pyr is the least intelligent. He is beginning to growl when fed. He walks well on a lead (95% of the time) but when he feels like pulling he will not respond to commands. He is constantly all over any person or pet near enough to pounce. As he grows this is going to become a major issue.

My question is will he outgrow this? Will he calm down with age? Will he always need supervision? I've lost two adults to rough handling and up to a dozen chicks were ate.

This is a serious issue for a livestock guardian dog. I wouldn't keep him if he'd eaten up to 12 chicks. Still, he's not supposed to be on a leash and acting like a pet, his breed's inherited intelligence is geared towards being a sole operator alone with the animals.

If he accidentally killed some due to rough handling, that's one thing, and you expect some accidents as LGDs get used to their charges, but consuming a whole clutch is not ok to be put down to youthful indiscretions especially because of what breed he is and the fact that he was born on a place with poultry so they're not new to him.

They free range and the dog is on a run or walking on a lead. I tie him to me all day yet his manners are no better than the day we got him. His size now means I can't get anything done and I know he's not going to improve if I leave him alone on a run.

Any suggestions?

Well, as a working dog he sounds like he's off to a bad start, but I'm not experienced with Pyrs. Someone knowledgeable about the breed may be able to help. So far it sounds like he's well on his way to being one of those duds they don't breed to make sure the breed stays true to standard, lol... Sorry. I've got empathy for your situation, I've also worked with unwilling dogs... To small avail unfortunately. The great dogs you get make the unwilling ones look like a ridiculously bad joke, I have no patience with them anymore. But if he can turn out and does, it would be good to hear, especially if you have any moments you can identify when things turned around and what you did to make it happen.

Best wishes.

 

[rockingbearanch]

He has papers and was pricey. He was on a large ranch with a wide variety of animals. The chickens free ranged around the dog's kennels there. They only had two pups to choose from and there was a returned dog there. I was told there was a moving situation with the purchaser. This set of bells but I got him anyway.

When I first got him I did have him in a 9x9 run or a crate next to the chicken coop but he cried and howled constantly. After a month I put him on the run. He is still overly vocal. Ignoring him doesn't seem to affect him. I don't believe I would feel comfortable with him being a pet. He has to have minimal manners and he simply doesn't seem to be able or willing.

 

[chooks4life]

He has papers and was pricey. He was on a large ranch with a wide variety of animals. The chickens free ranged around the dog's kennels there. They only had two pups to choose from and there was a returned dog there. I was told there was a moving situation with the purchaser. This set of bells but I got him anyway.

That does not sound promising. :/

Papers don't prove the animal can work, just that it's pedigreed, but I am sure you know that.

When I first got him I did have him in a 9x9 run or a crate next to the chicken coop but he cried and howled constantly. After a month I put him on the run. He is still overly vocal. Ignoring him doesn't seem to affect him.

Maybe he just missed his siblings? Still, as far as I've heard on Pyrs, they are separated as pups and put to work. Sometimes in pairs but quite often alone. Maybe pet-bred?

I don't believe I would feel comfortable with him being a pet. He has to have minimal manners and he simply doesn't seem to be able or willing.

Can the breeder put you in contact with any other buyers to see how they're doing? If that's something you're interested in. Probably not I guess, after all there was a returned dog there.. But I don't know the situation so I'm not much help, lol.

Best wishes.

 

[rockingbearanch]

I've attempted to work with the breeder. They don't respond. Their only reply was to roll the dog around the chickens. On message boards for the breed people say not to do that. This seems to make the dog do more of the trick where he runs fast, skids, and rolls anyone close enough to bowl.

Today he ate the hot tub. Pulled off the panel and pulled out parts and wires. Lucky for him it is shut down and will be replaced with a new one.

If all else fails, how do chickens like their dog food prepared? If the dog is going to eat my screaming baby chicks like Ozzy Ozbourne eating heads off bats, he's going to have to go one way or another. I don't have an empty field to keep a useless dog.

If you are purchasing a new dog and want to know my experience with Texas breeders feel free to message me. I was lead to believe these dogs are good with chickens. I have not yet been able to find anyone with a pyr success story. I would recommend ANY other breed. We have had great Chows and a variety of Shepherds.

 

[heartsizedfarm]

Too bad he got those baby chicks. Eating them will have been a yummy positive reinforcement that will be hard to break.

 

[res]

Working livestock dogs ARE NOT like other breeds of dogs. They need to be handled completely differently and trained differently in order to do their job.

Some people are not cut out for the commitment and frustration that can come with raising a working LGD.

You might be better suited with Chow or Shepherd, since it seems you have had them in the past. They will not, however, work in the capacity that a TRUE LGD does.

 

[wyoDreamer]

I have a 4 month old Pyr. He is by far the most hyper animal we have owned. He cannot get through two commands without losing attention and rolling around on the ground. He continues to prove untrustworthy even though he was born at a farm with chickens and turkeys. I know many people think they are wonderful but I don't see it in this particular dog. I've had labs, poodles, huskies, chows, aussies, etc. The Pyr is the least intelligent. He is beginning to growl when fed. He walks well on a lead (95% of the time) but when he feels like pulling he will not respond to commands. He is constantly all over any person or pet near enough to pounce. As he grows this is going to become a major issue.

My question is will he outgrow this? Will he calm down with age? Will he always need supervision? I've lost two adults to rough handling and up to a dozen chicks were ate. They free range and the dog is on a run or walking on a lead. I tie him to me all day yet his manners are no better than the day we got him. His size now means I can't get anything done and I know he's not going to improve if I leave him alone on a run.

Any suggestions?

What do you want out of him?
are you just looking for a pet? doing tricks for treats and such
or
are you intending to use him for livestock guarding?
or
a big dog protector just hanging out near the house type of dog?

 

[dainerra]

I can tell you one thing for sure. At only 4 months old, he is a BABY. He will have a tiny attention span and it's going to be quite a while (think YEARS) before he mentally matures.

 

[dainerra]

the LGD people I know work a puppy for several months with an older, more experienced dog. Puppies are going to play - that is what they do. Dogs that play with livestock often end up killing their playthings. The jumping on people and overexcitement is typical puppy behavior for any breed of dog.