Hatchery Dutch?

[suyoder]

I was just wondering if anyone knows of any hatcheries that sell PURE Dutch Bantams, with no other Bantams bred into their DB line? I ended up with a trio of dutch that look like they have some other blood somewhere, and i was wondering if theres ANY WAY to find some affordable PURE Dutch?! I live in VA and cannot currently travel to get birds, thats why i would love to find out about any places that SHIP pure DB chicks or eggs.
Thanks in advance!

Edit: here's some hatcheries that sell dutch... But are they true dutch? Non recognized Colors don't bother me, i just want some birds with correct type.
http://www.mypetchicken.com/chicken-breeds/Dutch-Bantam-B142.aspx
http://www.welphatchery.com/smooth-legged-bantams/

https://www.strombergschickens.com/prod_detail_list/Bantam-Chicken-Chicks

 

[Tuhmu]

Hatchery birds are not going to be close to type. You will get birds that some what resemble the breed but I think you will find yourself in the same situation you are in now.

 

[JeanR]

Nonstandard colors (varieties) means mixed breeds. Most hatcheries either hatch from a mixed flock of Dutch/OEGB/sometimes Pheonix/Rosecomb, Leghorn bantam mixes OR, they buy eggs. They buy them on faith, have no idea what they will really hatch, and since they are shipped day of hatch, have only that word of sellers, that they are Dutch and the varieties offered. Down color is deceptive, hatchery employees just pack them for shipping from amazing imcubators, and off they go--they do not know what they will grow up to be.-but will be bantams.. Pictures of their "dutch" breeding flock looks like a bunch of backyard bantiess--pretty, yes, healthy, yes. NOT DUTCH. And serious breeders will not sell eggs, as no one knows until the chick is growing, if it is worth selling at all. Reputation of a breeder depends upon their Dutch birds, and so chicks are never sold, either. It is the only way a breed can keep it's unique characteristics, Type, variety, genetic predictability. Just want cheap pet Dutch? They are out there, and often lead to wanting the real deal--and what do you do with the ones being replaced with true Dutch? High prices are only to recoup expenses for raising the best, feed, equipment, vaccination, NPIP testing, it is expensive to raise the best. But a responsible breeder will have low cost birds, also, maybe with poor comb (and this is not always passed along in breeding). or other faults, that they do not want to keep in their breeding flock, are not Show prospects--and yet, have the same siblings that ARE Show birds. Takes some years to develop a flock of predominantly Show Birds, although most who purchase them, will never show, but want to raise the BEST they can! This is what keeps a breed the same,year after year, or otherwise, they would change by natural selection and not be recognized in 25 year or more!

Right now, I have 4 Dutch pullet to GIVE--not because they are culls in TYPE, but because they are WILD. I purchased them, and after 8 months, they are still kookey wild. Not my kind of birds to care for. AND I now have chicks from them that are sweet, beautiful type, and will be an asset to my Dutch or saleable as best breeding birds. Did not let those wild pullets raise them, hatched by other dear hens that are lovely mothers. It will be a loss to give them, but better for me to have each breeding pen of 3, anxious to see me, come in from outside pens when I whistle for them-easily programed to move to their outside pens morning and back in the evening, gentle to handle and inspect for mites, weight, condition!

So depending upon what you really want--hatchery Dutch may not be true Dutch at all. Since they must be shipped at day old, several hatcheries that did not have sales, have discontinued them! Good News! Chicks must be destroyed-or popped in as extras with other bantams, if not sold day of hatch. That is sad, but business requires sales! AND we NEED Hatcheries for Fryers layers, roasters, could not manage poultry raising without them. Healthy chicks, many breeds, but not Show birds, just production birds--good layers in many colors and types. Got some Speckled Sussex for my daughter last year--no two alike in pattern/color, but now great layers of beautiful eggs, lovely quiet hens, friendly--and would be setters, if she wanted to hatch chicks. She just wants eggs, and has them. So, it is your choice. Just hope you do not obtain some crossbreds and want to sell them as Dutch at a price a true Dutch of best type will bring and be worth it. Good luck.

 

[JeanR]

Whelps pictures of Dutch are very poor, not Dutch. Cannot sell Golden chicks, as only males can be bred in Golden by a formula of Silver and Light Brown crosses . Females are Silvers and cannot tell which are "Golden" until bred to a Light Brown and produces Golden males......and no Blues,, Blacks are true Dutch. AND BBRED is the flag that they are OEGB crosses as Dutch are Never bred in BBRed, worst cross that can damage the Light Brown Dutch for ever! :

My Pet Chicken also has pictures, NOT Dutch type at all, crossbreds

Didn't think Strombergs were still offering them, but BBRed? NEVER in Dutch! Can only be crossbred with OEGB. Can destroy the integrity of the breed.

There are Dutch breeders in VA who would have very good birds, reasonably priced. It is less expensive to purchase well started young birds, than feeding and raising culls that are not what you really want. Sometimes you can find them at Poultry Shows or a least meet breeders who can send you to locate good Dutch. Do no need to start with Show birds, but some of the best have never been shown, but could be, if it were of interest. It is certainly a nice activity, if possible,but some of the best breeders never show their birds themselves, but sell to those who do (and are a great support to the breeds.) Love my Dutch.......

 

[suyoder]

Nonstandard colors (varieties) means mixed breeds. Most hatcheries either hatch from a mixed flock of Dutch/OEGB/sometimes Pheonix/Rosecomb, Leghorn bantam mixes OR, they buy eggs. They buy them on faith, have no idea what they will really hatch, and since they are shipped day of hatch, have only that word of sellers, that they are Dutch and the varieties offered. Down color is deceptive, hatchery employees just pack them for shipping from amazing imcubators, and off they go--they do not know what they will grow up to be.-but will be bantams.. Pictures of their "dutch" breeding flock looks like a bunch of backyard bantiess--pretty, yes, healthy, yes. NOT DUTCH. And serious breeders will not sell eggs, as no one knows until the chick is growing, if it is worth selling at all. Reputation of a breeder depends upon their Dutch birds, and so chicks are never sold, either. It is the only way a breed can keep it's unique characteristics, Type, variety, genetic predictability. Just want cheap pet Dutch? They are out there, and often lead to wanting the real deal--and what do you do with the ones being replaced with true Dutch? High prices are only to recoup expenses for raising the best, feed, equipment, vaccination, NPIP testing, it is expensive to raise the best. But a responsible breeder will have low cost birds, also, maybe with poor comb (and this is not always passed along in breeding). or other faults, that they do not want to keep in their breeding flock, are not Show prospects--and yet, have the same siblings that ARE Show birds. Takes some years to develop a flock of predominantly Show Birds, although most who purchase them, will never show, but want to raise the BEST they can! This is what keeps a breed the same,year after year, or otherwise, they would change by natural selection and not be recognized in 25 year or more!

Right now, I have 4 Dutch pullet to GIVE--not because they are culls in TYPE, but because they are WILD. I purchased them, and after 8 months, they are still kookey wild. Not my kind of birds to care for. AND I now have chicks from them that are sweet, beautiful type, and will be an asset to my Dutch or saleable as best breeding birds. Did not let those wild pullets raise them, hatched by other dear hens that are lovely mothers. It will be a loss to give them, but better for me to have each breeding pen of 3, anxious to see me, come in from outside pens when I whistle for them-easily programed to move to their outside pens morning and back in the evening, gentle to handle and inspect for mites, weight, condition!

So depending upon what you really want--hatchery Dutch may not be true Dutch at all. Since they must be shipped at day old, several hatcheries that did not have sales, have discontinued them! Good News! Chicks must be destroyed-or popped in as extras with other bantams, if not sold day of hatch. That is sad, but business requires sales! AND we NEED Hatcheries for Fryers layers, roasters, could not manage poultry raising without them. Healthy chicks, many breeds, but not Show birds, just production birds--good layers in many colors and types. Got some Speckled Sussex for my daughter last year--no two alike in pattern/color, but now great layers of beautiful eggs, lovely quiet hens, friendly--and would be setters, if she wanted to hatch chicks. She just wants eggs, and has them. So, it is your choice. Just hope you do not obtain some crossbreds and want to sell them as Dutch at a price a true Dutch of best type will bring and be worth it. Good luck.

OK,

So I understand all this... but I don't understand why it's so awful to outcross the Dutch, when people have done it with most of the breeds at one time or another to create new colors. I've read multiple places that there are lots of accepted colors in the Dutch breed, they are just not all accepted in the USA. Is the type of the Dutch so hard to retain that outcrosses mess with this? I'm wanting to learn... not trying to cause trouble or anything.

Also, you have probably seen the other pictures I posted of my "Dutch"... I was told that they were OEGB, but I think they were just trying to tack a title on the birds, as they had got them from TSC last spring. Are these birds close enough to the Dutch type that if they got broody and raised some chicks, would it be "legal" (or whatever... didn't know what word to use) to say that they are Dutch? Or should I call them a "dutch mix"? Are they really THAT BAD in type?! And about the roosters weird color... could that just be due to age? He IS only a year old..


Penny


Solomon and Henny


Solomon - I heard that any red in the white there is bad? I see he does have red...


Solomon


Solomon - Note, his tail feathers ARE green, NOT blue... they just aren't showing up in these pictures.

I realize that it would be better to get all new stock if I want to raise Dutch, but that's not an option for me right now. Would it be horrible of me to just bring in some new stock when I can afford it? If it IS horrible... I will just stick with these guys and forget raising the pure Dutch right now. I'll just have fun with my backyard bantams.

Thanks again for your thorough answers!

 

[suyoder]

Blacks are true Dutch.

So if I ordered Blacks from Whelps, they would be true Dutch? What about other breeds like the D'Uccle (which is another breed I would love to have some day) Are they pure from hatcheries?

 

[suyoder]

Hatchery birds are not going to be close to type. You will get birds that some what resemble the breed but I think you will find yourself in the same situation you are in now.

Yes, makes sense. Thanks!

 

[suyoder]

JeanR, I found another post by you that explains it very well... glad I looked around a little more. You sound as if you've been raising Dutch for a long time? Thanks for all your input.

Quote:

 

[JeanR]

Really hate to be a wet blanket, but have worked so hard to keep the Dutch DUTCH! The pictures posted as Dutch would have the heads chopped off in Holland. I would not want any of them ---but That IS Where I Started in 1986! Crossbreds, got rid of them ALL, no chicks, not as Dutch, but as nice Banties (and they were sweet). Was able to travel to Shows in Holland, Germany, Britain, and made lifelong friends==and joined their Dutch Bantam Clubs. Several of the members have come to visit me in the US. Pretty nice!

(And this information is NOT to have you like your birds less-you doubtless love them, just please do not sell them as quality Dutch. Crossing them with "true Dutch", does not make them better, it makes "true Dutch" worse. SO ENJOY YOUR dutch!!!!!!! Someday you may want others--if not, still be happy with what you do have!! I keep lovely hens that are not suitable for hatching, eat their eggs, are wonderful broodies to hatch and raise the best chicks in the houses.

If all breeders of any special breed outcrossed to other breeds, the BREED is changed. It is necessary to have dedicated breeders to keep them to Standards. Guess alot of chickens would look pretty much alike, if cross breeding was the norm. And you know there are other breeds like Cochins, that some other soft feathered breeds can be crossed for a special feature and in just several generations they are acceptable to standard and do not CHANGE the Cochin. Duch do not have such compatible breeds in the US! NONE.

It is easy to "lift" the color from another breed of Bantams, but all the type, shape, quality of plumage, leg length,comb type, etc, comes along with the color in bits and pieces and it is there forever in the genetic makeup of decendants!

In Holland,there are Regional Bantam breeds, very old breeds,and closely related to the Dutch of 100 years ago. They are compatible with Dutch for "new" varieties that they may esxpress. Still takes some uears of work to get the Dutch type as dominant. AND they send the extras and culls to the Far EAst, where they are valued as small chickens in the markets for eating!!!! We have NONE of those breeds in the US at this time. AND OEGB are in no way related--and are now expressing more Dutch character than they did 50 years ago! Where did they get it (along with partially white ear lobes in their cull-crosses) Note the longer, larger wings on OEGB Show birds--NOT OEGB, but Dutch! Shorter shanks on the OEGB, where did they get them? And where did the longer legs of Dutch come from ? Crosses that can be made so easily, but can not be good for original breeds.

Soap box stuff--sorry .......

 

[suyoder]

Really hate to be a wet blanket, but have worked so hard to keep the Dutch DUTCH!   The pictures posted as Dutch would have the heads chopped off in Holland.  I would not want any of them ---but That IS Where I Started in 1986!    Crossbreds, got rid of them ALL, no chicks, not as Dutch, but as nice Banties (and they were sweet).    Was able to travel to Shows in Holland, Germany, Britain, and made lifelong friends==and joined their Dutch Bantam Clubs.  Several of the members have come to visit me in the US.  Pretty nice!

(And this information is NOT to have you like your birds less-you doubtless love them, just please do not sell them as quality Dutch.  Crossing them with "true Dutch", does not make them better, it makes "true Dutch" worse.  SO ENJOY YOUR dutch!!!!!!! Someday you may want others--if not, still be happy with what you do have!!  I keep lovely hens that are not suitable for hatching, eat their eggs, are wonderful broodies to hatch and raise the best chicks in the houses.

If all breeders of any special breed outcrossed to other breeds, the BREED is changed.  It is necessary to have dedicated  breeders to keep them to Standards.   Guess alot of chickens would look pretty much alike, if cross breeding was the norm.   And you know there are other breeds like Cochins, that some other soft feathered breeds can be crossed for a special feature and in just several generations they are acceptable to standard and do not CHANGE the Cochin.   Duch do not have such compatible breeds in the US!  NONE.

It is easy to "lift" the color from another breed of Bantams, but all the type, shape, quality of plumage, leg length,comb type, etc, comes along with the color in bits and pieces and it is there forever in the genetic makeup of decendants!   

In Holland,there are Regional Bantam breeds, very old breeds,and closely related to the Dutch of 100 years ago.  They are compatible with Dutch for "new" varieties that they may esxpress. Still takes some uears of work to get the Dutch type as dominant.  AND they send the extras and culls to the Far EAst, where they are valued as small chickens in the markets for eating!!!!   We have NONE of those breeds in the US at this time.  AND OEGB are in no way related--and are now expressing more Dutch character than they did 50 years ago!  Where did they get it (along with partially white ear lobes in their cull-crosses)    Note the longer, larger wings on OEGB Show birds--NOT OEGB, but Dutch!    Shorter shanks on the OEGB, where did they get them?  And where did the longer legs of Dutch come from ?  Crosses that can be made so easily, but can not be good for original breeds.

Soap box stuff--sorry .......

Don't apologize. this is good stuff! So the current "ruined" Dutch Bantam that is so prevalent in the US... Would it be classified as American type Dutch Bantam? What kind of Dutch is being shown in America? Are some of these cross breeds being shown?