Have I finally found good feed??

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

U_Stormcrow is probably so done with responding to my many threads, so, sorry! I am on the seemingly never ending search for good feed for my laying hens. I have 10 hens (6 are pullets) and I am looking for a new feed for them, is this suitable for their needs? They are all young heritage breeds, except for 2 ISA Browns (who are 4yo). They stay in a large run with a compost and lots of grass, they occasionally free range. The pullets wont eat this until they are laying.
I found this food that, to me, seems good. What are your guys' thoughts?

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

@U_Stormcrow

 

[U_Stormcrow]

U_Stormcrow is probably so done with responding to my many threads, so, sorry! I am on the seemingly never ending search for good feed for my laying hens. I have 10 hens (6 are pullets) and I am looking for a new feed for them, is this suitable for their needs? They are all young heritage breeds, except for 2 ISA Browns (who are 4yo). They stay in a large run with a compost and lots of grass, they occasionally free range. The pullets wont eat this until they are laying.
I found this food that, to me, seems good. What are your guys' thoughts?

View attachment 4093273

For Production Layers, the Calcium is fine. The Phos [edit] WAY HIGH [edit], the Met is very good to great - likely more than they need or can use effectively. The Lys is good to very good.

That is a LOT of fat. Honestly, I'm not sure how they even achieved a fat level that high. Sorghum, the top ingredient by weight, is only 3-5% fat. Feed peas are often less than 2% fat. Meat & Bone meal 10%, give or take. Sunflower seeds are around 50% fat. Linseed meal is around 40% fat. Alfalfa meal only a couple %. Calcium Carbonate is 40% calcium by weight, so 10% of the bag is oyster shell.

That means the first six contents can't add up to more than 90% of the contents, and are likely around 87%. The alfalfa meal and linseed meal each weigh as much or more than the calcium carbonate (at least 10% ea), so the remaining ingredients (the first four) can't be more than 67% of the total, so sunflower seeds can't be more than 18% of the total weight, or they would appear elsewhere on the label. That's about 9% fat on its own. The Linseed meal another 4% or so - that's only half way there. The remaining ingredients are all low single digit fat content. I can see 15, 16% fat easy. (that's still very high) But my mental math isn't getting me the rest of the way.

Maybe someone can look over my virtual shoulder? Its been a long day (already). Recheck my mental math?

Their label on their website doesn't match their guaranteed analysis on the same page. https://www.grandadfarms.com/product-page/layer-feed

That's concerning. I don't know of any studies looking at that level of Phos for chickens. The usual usage ratio is 2 Ca per 1 P for almost everything except eggshell production. In a typical feed, 0.4% is considered minimum acceptable P. 0.5% or 0.6% are sought after. 4%? that's a 7 - 10x increase over recommends. I'd want to know more.

 

[MysteryChicken]

For Production Layers, the Calcium is fine. The Phos is OK, the Met is very good to great - likely more than they need or can use effectively. The Lys is good to very good.

That is a LOT of fat. Honestly, I'm not sure how they even achieved a fat level that high. Sorghum, the top ingredient by weight, is only 3-5% fat. Feed peas are often less than 2% fat. Meat & Bone meal 10%, give or take. Sunflower seeds are around 50% fat. Linseed meal is around 40% fat. Alfalfa meal only a couple %. Calcium Carbonate is 40% calcium by weight, so 10% of the bag is oyster shell.

That means the first six contents can't add up to more than 90% of the contents, and are likely around 87%. The alfalfa meal and linseed meal each weigh as much or more than the calcium carbonate (at least 10% ea), so the remaining ingredients (the first four) can't be more than 67% of the total, so sunflower seeds can't be more than 18% of the total weight, or they would appear elsewhere on the label. That's about 9% fat on its own. The Linseed meal another 4% or so - that's only half way there. The remaining ingredients are all low single digit fat content. I can see 15, 16% fat easy. (that's still very high) But my mental math isn't getting me the rest of the way.

Maybe someone can look over my virtual shoulder? Its been a long day (already). Recheck my mental math?

Sounds more like a Meat Bird Finisher rather then a layer feed, minus the calcium amount.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

See for your reading pleasure https://ucanr.edu/sites/default/files/2020-04/323187.pdf

There's also a study (1982) finding decreasing eggshell quality as dietary phosphorus exceeded certain maximums. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...667a9ec&pid=1-s2.0-S0032579119460781-main.pdf

(not all P is the same - chickens almost can't use phytate [that is, plant-based] Phosphorus w/o certain enzymes], but the recipe above uses meat and bone meal. Bone meal is definitely a useable P source).

Lots of other studies at more "normal" P levels I could link, that don't really answer the question posed.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My first thought was that they missed a decimal point, it was really 2.5% fat. Looking at their website it looks like their Layer Mash is 5.2% fat.

@ChickenShepherd_6116 it's most likely a misprint, they transposed the numbers and messed up the decimal point. But I don't trust "most likely".

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Sounds more like a Meat Bird Finisher rather then a layer feed, minus the calcium amount.

Yeah, its wierd. Almost like they grabbed a bunch of cheap local ingredients, slapped a label on it, and called it chicken feed.

You helped solve my mental math problem though - I didn't account for the Ca in the Meat & Bone meal, so I estimated too much Calcium Carbonate. Which threw off all the other inclusion rates.

Thank you for that. I was getting frustrated.

 

[NatJ]

My first thought was that they missed a decimal point, it was really 2.5% fat. Looking at their website it looks like their Layer Mash is 5.2% fat.

@ChickenShepherd_6116 it's most likely a misprint, they transposed the numbers and messed up the decimal point. But I don't trust "most likely".

That exactly matches my thinking, too: missing decimal point, and some transposed numbers. I wasn't sure whether to consider 2.5% or 5.2% the more likely one (although looking at what U_Stormcrow figured, the 5.2% is the more likely of the two.)

 

[MysteryChicken]

Yeah, its wierd. Almost like they grabbed a bunch of cheap local ingredients, slapped a label on it, and called it chicken feed.

You helped solve my mental math problem though - I didn't account for the Ca in the Meat & Bone meal, so I estimated too much Calcium Carbonate. Which threw off all the other inclusion rates.

Thank you for that. I was getting frustrated.

You're Welcome.
I've got weird ways of solving problems.

 

[Sic]

There are some crazy numbers on that tag, and I don't think they are correct. However, since your pullets are very young (month old) and you're wanting to integrate them into your flock, it's going to be hard to have them eating different feed for so many months. Their (Grandadfarms) chick feed looks like a much better option and you can feed them all the same feed and just offer calcium supplement on the side for laying hens to use as needed. Just my two cents..