Help needed: gander seems sick, with severe gaping

[GEESES Peanut Butter Cup]

The gander was eating normally until yesterday (Aug. 4). Yesterday, he ate much less than normal (sudden loss of appetite) and had severe head-and-neck-forward gaping multiple times.

Today (Aug. 5), he hasn't eaten much, either, and still has gaping. I gave him water mixed with Sav-a-Chick vitamin supplements (he has drunk only a little so far) and normal water.

He still drinks water and floats in the swimming pool. He still preens, but most of his preening spot is his breast (?)'s line.

He had been having constant open mouth for at least one week. We though it might be due to the heat wave recently. However, the temperature yesterday wasn't too bad.

We suspect it to be mold infection (the mold grew quickly during the heat wave).


The next available time of the vet we went to will be Aug. 15. What can I do for the gander before the day?

I live in the Portland, Oregon area in the United States, and the vet clinic we go to is The Avian Medical Center in Lake Oswego, Oregon (http://www.theavianmedicalcenter.com/). Is there other places I can take him to see a vet?

Updates:
His normal poop is dry (relatively dry compared to fully liquid), but since yesterday (Aug. 4), the sound of his pooping is as if a human is having a diarrhea. His most recent poop has only liquid.

The bedding are carpets that are washed and sun dried daily or bi-daily.

Updates 2:
He's happy when he sees his feed and lettuce, and he sometimes tries to take a bite but then give up.

Took him to Dove Lewis Emergency Hospital in Portland, Oregon on Aug. 5 night and stayed there until Aug. 6 morning. Their specialties are dogs and cats, not birds. They gave him oxygen. For now, they gave him Doxycycline (antibiotics) and Meloxicam (for anti-inflammatory). It has been approx. 3 hours since the medicine was administered, but he still hasn't eaten anything.

When in the emergency hospital, he rubbed the oil from his oil gland over his body.

When he gapes, he would shake his head.
He has been eating little for 2 days.

Updates 3:
More hours after the medicine was administered (Aug. 6), he started eating the grass seeds he regularly ate. He has eaten grass seed meals a few times and has green non-fully-liquid poop 12 hours after the medicine.

We gave him another Doxycycline pill as prescribed 12 hours. He ate another grass seed meal. We'll get some lemons later to have a few drops in his drinking water later (thanks to Goosebaby).

I checked his preening part as mentioned by Goosebaby. There's no external injury visible, but I can't be sure if there's something internal.

I don't seem to feel something hard in his lower and upper abdomen, but I'll keep a watch in case something gets worse.

More info on the gander:
He's 3 years old.

He's on Mazuri Maintenance Diet (https://mazuri.com/products/mazuri-waterfowl-maintenance-diets?variant=41118076207300). We almost always grind the pellets to make it almost as small as powder. We also give him Top Choice Economy Pasture Mix seeds (https://www.farmstore.com/product/top-choice-economy-pasture-mix-25-lb/) in case he wants some.

 

[Percheron chick]

Have you ever dewormed him? Can you get him to eat treats like lettuce or fruit?

 

[Goosebaby]

If mold is the issue (aspergillosis) it can be treated if caught early, but often even then the prognosis is poor, I’m very sorry to say that but it is an incredibly difficult illness to treat. Asper can be acute and come on very quickly, or it can be chronic and develop slowly, it can affect different parts of the body so it can be very sneaky and symptoms can mimic many other illnesses, often though it’s accompanied by changes in the voice of its affecting the syrinx, lungs, air sacks or throat. Lung infections of any kind will affect a bird’s voice, giving them a gurgling voice, but asper alters their pitch and gives them a hoarse tone.

For comparison this is my gander Thor “in the lead” who had asper, confirmed by x-rays and blood tests. https://www.instagram.com/p/CfZRwtUggzS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=



There could be other issues that could be the issue besides asper though.

Open mouth breathing can be due to a blockage or intestinal infection. If he has a blockage it could be causing a lot of pain in his abdomen and it will put pressure on his lungs and air sacks and he’ll pant from the pain and the pressure.

He could have an intestinal infection, if his lower intestine, colon, is inflamed it will put a lot of pressure on his lower air sacks and he’ll pant from the pain and the lack of air flow. He’ll also have a lot of gas.

Parasites can cause symptoms that can be a combination between a blockage and an infection depending on the species or numbers.

There’s also the possibility that he could have an enlarged liver from a chronic or sudden issue, which will also put pressure on his heart, lungs, and other organs causing him pain and to pant.

Internal pain from an infection, blockage, or enlarged organ issue can cause him to excessively preen his abdomen, because it hurts. In parrots it’s common for them to feather pick their side near their liver if they have an enlarged liver.

Metal toxicity could also cause all of the issues above, if there’s a chance he swallowed lead or something with zinc he’ll have all of these symptoms, typically nuerological symptoms will also be present though.

If you can add some lemon or grapefruit juice to his water, they can help bring down inflammation. B vitamins can also do this as well as boost his immune system, as will vitamin C in the grapefruit or lemon. If he has a blockage or partial obstruction watery foods are best, you can mix his feed with a lot of water to help him keep a lot of water passing through his system.

I do have a few questions that might help.

What feed is he on?

How old is he?

Is he coughing or sneezing?

Has he regurgitated water, food?

Does he have a runny nose or coughed up any mucus?

What do you mean by his droppings normally being dry?
Geese have log shaped droppings that should be moist and squishy at first. If they’re hard and dry when they first come out of him that means he’s constipated, probably from an infection, and that will cause a blockage.

 

[Goosebaby]

For reference this is my gander Roxby gaping. At the time I wasn’t sure what his problem was, it turned out to be a partial blockage from an enlarged, inflamed colon due to clostridium. https://www.instagram.com/p/CWUZoCjJw7M/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

[GEESES Peanut Butter Cup]

Have you ever dewormed him? Can you get him to eat treats like lettuce or fruit?

Never dewormed him. He's happy when he sees his feed and lettuce, and he sometimes tries to take a bite but then give up.

 

[GEESES Peanut Butter Cup]

If mold is the issue (aspergillosis) it can be treated if caught early, but often even then the prognosis is poor, I’m very sorry to say that but it is an incredibly difficult illness to treat. Asper can be acute and come on very quickly, or it can be chronic and develop slowly, it can affect different parts of the body so it can be very sneaky and symptoms can mimic many other illnesses, often though it’s accompanied by changes in the voice of its affecting the syrinx, lungs, air sacks or throat. Lung infections of any kind will affect a bird’s voice, giving them a gurgling voice, but asper alters their pitch and gives them a hoarse tone.

His voice seems to be normal, but I can't be 100% sure. It might be a little more hoarse than usual, but I really can't tell.

For comparison this is my gander Thor “in the lead” who had asper, confirmed by x-rays and blood tests. https://www.instagram.com/p/CfZRwtUggzS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=



There could be other issues that could be the issue besides asper though.

Open mouth breathing can be due to a blockage or intestinal infection. If he has a blockage it could be causing a lot of pain in his abdomen and it will put pressure on his lungs and air sacks and he’ll pant from the pain and the pressure.

He could have an intestinal infection, if his lower intestine, colon, is inflamed it will put a lot of pressure on his lower air sacks and he’ll pant from the pain and the lack of air flow. He’ll also have a lot of gas.

Parasites can cause symptoms that can be a combination between a blockage and an infection depending on the species or numbers.

There’s also the possibility that he could have an enlarged liver from a chronic or sudden issue, which will also put pressure on his heart, lungs, and other organs causing him pain and to pant.

Internal pain from an infection, blockage, or enlarged organ issue can cause him to excessively preen his abdomen, because it hurts. In parrots it’s common for them to feather pick their side near their liver if they have an enlarged liver.

Metal toxicity could also cause all of the issues above, if there’s a chance he swallowed lead or something with zinc he’ll have all of these symptoms, typically nuerological symptoms will also be present though.

If you can add some lemon or grapefruit juice to his water, they can help bring down inflammation. B vitamins can also do this as well as boost his immune system, as will vitamin C in the grapefruit or lemon. If he has a blockage or partial obstruction watery foods are best, you can mix his feed with a lot of water to help him keep a lot of water passing through his system.

I'll try to mix his feed into the water.

I do have a few questions that might help.

What feed is he on?

He's on Mazuri Maintenance Diet (https://mazuri.com/products/mazuri-waterfowl-maintenance-diets?variant=41118076207300). We almost always grind the pellets to make it almost as small as powder. We also give him Top Choice Economy Pasture Mix seeds (https://www.farmstore.com/product/top-choice-economy-pasture-mix-25-lb/) in case he wants some.

How old is he?

3 years old

Is he coughing or sneezing?

Not as I know, but when he gapes, he would shake his head.

Has he regurgitated water, food?

He has been eating little for 2 days. As for water, I don't think so.

Does he have a runny nose or coughed up any mucus?

I can't really tell. He washes his nose from time to time.

What do you mean by his droppings normally being dry?
Geese have log shaped droppings that should be moist and squishy at first. If they’re hard and dry when they first come out of him that means he’s constipated, probably from an infection, and that will cause a blockage.

Sorry for the confusion. I meant relatively dry compared to fully liquid.

Some updates:
He's happy when he sees his feed and lettuce, and he sometimes tries to take a bite but then give up.

Took him to Dove Lewis Emergency Hospital in Portland, Oregon on Aug. 5 night and stayed there until Aug. 6 morning. Their specialties are dogs and cats, not birds. They gave him oxygen. For now, they gave him Doxycycline (antibiotics) and Meloxicam (for anti-inflammatory). It has been approx. 3 hours since the medicine was administered, but he still hasn't eaten anything.

When in the emergency hospital, he rubbed the oil from his oil gland over his body.

When he gapes, he would shake his head.
He has been eating little for 2 days.
------
Thank you so much for the possible causes of the issue (it might help me talk with the vet). Also, thank you so much for the two videos as references (I can't describe how I feel for Thor and Roxby, and thank you all).

 

[Goosebaby]

His voice seems to be normal, but I can't be 100% sure. It might be a little more hoarse than usual, but I really can't tell.

I'll try to mix his feed into the water.

He's on Mazuri Maintenance Diet (https://mazuri.com/products/mazuri-waterfowl-maintenance-diets?variant=41118076207300). We almost always grind the pellets to make it almost as small as powder. We also give him Top Choice Economy Pasture Mix seeds (https://www.farmstore.com/product/top-choice-economy-pasture-mix-25-lb/) in case he wants some.

3 years old

Not as I know, but when he gapes, he would shake his head.

He has been eating little for 2 days. As for water, I don't think so.

I can't really tell. He washes his nose from time to time.

Sorry for the confusion. I meant relatively dry compared to fully liquid.

Some updates:
He's happy when he sees his feed and lettuce, and he sometimes tries to take a bite but then give up.

Took him to Dove Lewis Emergency Hospital in Portland, Oregon on Aug. 5 night and stayed there until Aug. 6 morning. Their specialties are dogs and cats, not birds. They gave him oxygen. For now, they gave him Doxycycline (antibiotics) and Meloxicam (for anti-inflammatory). It has been approx. 3 hours since the medicine was administered, but he still hasn't eaten anything.

When in the emergency hospital, he rubbed the oil from his oil gland over his body.

When he gapes, he would shake his head.
He has been eating little for 2 days.
------
Thank you so much for the possible causes of the issue (it might help me talk with the vet). Also, thank you so much for the two videos as references (I can't describe how I feel for Thor and Roxby, and thank you all).

I thought of another thing. Have you examined where he’s preening to see if he might be injured there?


Something else I thought of is just a respiratory illness of a different kind, airsacculitis “pneumonia,” E.coli infection, some other bacteria, a virus, or chronic respiratory disease “CRD.”
CRD is better understood in chickens but geese can get it too. It’s caused by various species of mycoplasma and can be difficult to test for and even harder to treat. Doxycycline is the standard treatment for that, depending on sensitivity Tylosin And Tiamulin (denegard) can also be used. Mycoplasma unfortunatly will never be eliminated, the antibiotics will just force it into dormancy for an indefinite amount of time until something stressful like an illness, heat, cold, or just getting upset, brings it back out. Mycoplasma typically causes airsacculitis but can also cause joint swelling in the legs, facial swelling, runny nose, an other problems depending on the species and how aggressive it is.

I’ve suspected that my geese have mycoplasma but haven’t had it confirmed, but if they do have it, to give you an idea about what it can do, it manifests usually a few days after excessive heat or cold, some will have a cough, some have a runny nose, a few have had subtle or more noticeable gaping with or without a runny nose, some have had sinusitis, some will seemingly have no symptoms but just seem more subdued, only one has had swelling of the hocks, and only Helios my biggest gander has had mild facial swelling, overall he gets all symptoms worse than the others, but none have ever had bubbling eyes.

Any other kind of respiratory illness that can cause airsacculitis will cause all of these symptoms minus the leg issues though, mycoplasma is suspect if it keeps coming back in association with a stressful event though.
If you can get him seen by a avian exotic vet that would be best, also if you’re lucky enough to find an old farm vet that would be equally good, but having a vet that will see him even though they aren’t expierienced with birds is a big deal, most vets won’t see birds at all.
If you go back to them some useful testing would be to have an x-ray done to look at his lungs and air sacks, if there’s cloudiness or a spidery appearance it can indicate a lung infection. A test for intestinal parasites or bacterial infection would also be useful.
I would recommend that they reach out to a university or state veterinary lab to collaborate, get an idea of what a normal bacterial count would be in their findings.

You could ask for amoxicillin, it’s usually prescribed if it isn’t clear what bacteria is causing an issue, baytril is another that is highly effective on many bacteria species. Amoxicillin won’t treat mycoplasma but it can deal with secondary issues which are common, baytril has some activity against mycoplasma but not much. Mycoplasma may not be the issue, there are a number of other bacteria species that could be to blame.

 

[Goosebaby]

Baytril, amoxicillin, Tylosin, and other’s can also be purchased online if it’s marketed for fish or pigeons. It’s the same stuff sold for humans though.
That’s another option to consider. If you need help with dosing Casportpony here has a lot of knowledge with proper dosing, just send her a message and she can help.

Here’s where I’ve gottwn my baytril https://birdpalproducts.com/products/enrofloxacin-10-liquid-for-birds?_pos=1&_sid=c59aaefdc&_ss=r

 

[Goosebaby]

Something that you can check is to feel his lower abdomen, other than his hips it should feel soft and mostly squishy, if you feel a hard mass it could either be a tumor or it could easily be an inflamed intestine. If you don’t feel it it doesn’t mean that there isn’t an intestinal issue, but if you do something’s definitly going on there.

 

[GEESES Peanut Butter Cup]

I thought of another thing. Have you examined where he’s preening to see if he might be injured there?


Something else I thought of is just a respiratory illness of a different kind, airsacculitis “pneumonia,” E.coli infection, some other bacteria, a virus, or chronic respiratory disease “CRD.”
CRD is better understood in chickens but geese can get it too. It’s caused by various species of mycoplasma and can be difficult to test for and even harder to treat. Doxycycline is the standard treatment for that, depending on sensitivity Tylosin And Tiamulin (denegard) can also be used. Mycoplasma unfortunatly will never be eliminated, the antibiotics will just force it into dormancy for an indefinite amount of time until something stressful like an illness, heat, cold, or just getting upset, brings it back out. Mycoplasma typically causes airsacculitis but can also cause joint swelling in the legs, facial swelling, runny nose, an other problems depending on the species and how aggressive it is.

We haven't know the cause, but Doxycycline or the anti-inflammatory seem to be working. His condition has improved, but we still plan to take him to the avian-specific vet on Aug. 15. No swelling as far as I can see so far, but I'll keep a watch.

I’ve suspected that my geese have mycoplasma but haven’t had it confirmed, but if they do have it, to give you an idea about what it can do, it manifests usually a few days after excessive heat or cold, some will have a cough, some have a runny nose, a few have had subtle or more noticeable gaping with or without a runny nose, some have had sinusitis, some will seemingly have no symptoms but just seem more subdued, only one has had swelling of the hocks, and only Helios my biggest gander has had mild facial swelling, overall he gets all symptoms worse than the others, but none have ever had bubbling eyes.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge of possible symptoms and the variety of combinations for mycoplasma. I'll keep a watch.

Any other kind of respiratory illness that can cause airsacculitis will cause all of these symptoms minus the leg issues though, mycoplasma is suspect if it keeps coming back in association with a stressful event though.

Thanks.

If you can get him seen by a avian exotic vet that would be best, also if you’re lucky enough to find an old farm vet that would be equally good, but having a vet that will see him even though they aren’t expierienced with birds is a big deal, most vets won’t see birds at all.
If you go back to them some useful testing would be to have an x-ray done to look at his lungs and air sacks, if there’s cloudiness or a spidery appearance it can indicate a lung infection. A test for intestinal parasites or bacterial infection would also be useful.
I would recommend that they reach out to a university or state veterinary lab to collaborate, get an idea of what a normal bacterial count would be in their findings.

Because his condition is improving, we'll keep giving him the prescribed medicine and wait for him to eat more before having x-ray as the hospital here requires anesthesia, which seems risky given he hadn't eaten for 2 days. The emergency hospital prescribed 2 weeks of antibiotics and anti-inflammatory, which can sustain until Aug. 15, when we can take him to the typical avian vet.

I'm not sure if I should take him to another avian vet who typically sees parrots or chickens before Aug. 15 as all the vets nearby who I know see birds takes at least approx. half an hour drive to get to, which can be stressful for the bird. Do you have similar experiences?

You could ask for amoxicillin, it’s usually prescribed if it isn’t clear what bacteria is causing an issue, baytril is another that is highly effective on many bacteria species. Amoxicillin won’t treat mycoplasma but it can deal with secondary issues which are common, baytril has some activity against mycoplasma but not much. Mycoplasma may not be the issue, there are a number of other bacteria species that could be to blame.

I'll keep a watch on the gander's conditions and requests the medicine from the vets.

Thank you so much for giving the info of what to watch and what medicine I might ask the vets for/about.