Holly berries & AGGRESSION

[KoopinItReal]

Hey all- I learned something yesterday & thought I better share in case anyone else encounters this.
There is a large holly shrub right next to one of my coops. When I let my chooks out to free-range for a while yesterday I noticed the holly berries were all perfectly ripe so I pulled a branch down to let them pick some off. Having read from multiple academic sources that holly berries are an important food source for birds this time of year, I thought I was being a good chicken mama introducing them to a new food source. They each ate maybe a few & then moved on. About 15mins later my slightly handicapped roo who was hand-raised & is highly socialized & sweet slammed himself full force into the back of my boots while I was turned around setting a tub on the ground outside their run. He then proceeded to keep attacking my boots. I picked him up to carry him around to set him straight & he turned his head & latched onto my wrist. He has NEVER displayed behavior anything like this before. I put them back in their coop & then about 15mins after that my hubs texted me to come outside bc my 2 other roos were attacking each other & chasing each other all over the property. I would estimate they must have run a half mile altogether before they wound up back by the run & my hubs caught one. The smaller one then tried to attack the one my hubs was holding & gashed my hub's leg. I got there & we pulled them off each other & I put the one roo & his girls in another room of the coop for the night. These 2 roos were hatch mates & had lived together since they hatched without a problem, but yesterday they were literally crazed : o
I had learned last week about a type of native holly called yaupon that native Americans prized for its medicinal value, partly bc it contains caffeine. It grows all over the southeast US & is used a lot as an ornamental shrub. It is now being used to make tea & skincare products due to the caffeine content. I think I found one at the back of my property the other day, however, the one the chickens ate from appears to be a different type of holly. Last night I did more research & found that another genus of holly (Ilex aquifolium) contains theobromine, a caffeine-like alkaloid that causes stimulation of the central nervous system. Over consumption of the berries can go beyond that & actually depress the CNS. The ONLY thing that was different about yesterday from any other day with my chooks was that I let them have holly berries.
This morning we reintroduced the 2 separated groups & stayed in the run with them for a while to make sure they didn't go crazy. Everything is hunky dory again & they are now out free-ranging together with their girls. I visited with my other boy & he is back to his sweet self.
Moral of the story is- if your chooks start acting cra-cra, take a look around your property & learn about the plants on it. Diet is everything. Don't automatically assume that uncharacteristic behavior is the fault of the bird. Especially this time of year, they may have been tweakin' on holly berries Lol!
https://pcmg-texas.org/schrubs/146-are-the-berries-of-yaupon-hollies-poisonous

 

[LaFleche]

Since I have a lot of holly bushes in my chicken yards and runs and never ever in more than 20 years experienced aggressive behaviour after my chicken ingested the berries, I would classify the event you describe as coincidence and not induced by holly berries. But of course here we only have the normal sambucus nigra.

I sometimes keep up to 13 roosters and even though they might have been raised together as hatch mates, the day will surely come that aggression explodes and they will start nasty fights seemingly out of the blue.

 

[nuthatched]

I think its pure coincidence what you experienced. How old are your roosters?
Chickens fill their crops during the day and digest at night, 15 minutes in the crop would not have any affect on your chickens what so ever.

 

[Aapomp831]

Since I have a lot of holly bushes in my chicken yards and runs and never ever in more than 20 years experienced aggressive behaviour after my chicken ingested the berries, I would classify the event you describe as coincidence and not induced by holly berries. But of course here we only have the normal sambucus nigra.

I sometimes keep up to 13 roosters and even though they might have been raised together as hatch mates, the day will surely come that aggression explodes and they will start nasty fights seemingly out of the blue.

You beat me to it.
Your rooster is becoming aggressive and you’ll need to nip it in the bud. It’s very common for a rooster to be fine one day and then turn the next. He’s probably been dropping subtle hints that you may have missed, like flapping his wings in your face or dancing around you. Multiple roosters feed off of each other. It sounds like the holly berries were more of a coincidence.

 

[KoopinItReal]

Since I have a lot of holly bushes in my chicken yards and runs and never ever in more than 20 years experienced aggressive behaviour after my chicken ingested the berries, I would classify the event you describe as coincidence and not induced by holly berries. But of course here we only have the normal sambucus nigra.

I sometimes keep up to 13 roosters and even though they might have been raised together as hatch mates, the day will surely come that aggression explodes and they will start nasty fights seemingly out of the blue.

I have 2 roos in 1 coop on 1 side of my property & the 1 other roo in a coop completely on the other side of my property. The 2 groups do not interact with eachother. They stay on their separate sides. The type of holly on your property is not in the group that contains theobromine so you could not
know for sure how yours would react if they ingested this. Since they have never behaved this way before & the only thing different was the ingestion of those berries it would appear the true coincidence would be if the berries DIDN’T have anything to do with this sudden ingestion.

 

[KoopinItReal]

I think its pure coincidence what you experienced. How old are your roosters?
Chickens fill their crops during the day and digest at night, 15 minutes in the crop would not have any affect on your chickens what so ever.

My roosters are about 10mos old. I don’t buy that something in their crop could not start to be taken up into their system tho. By your argument, if they ingested a toxin like fertilizer, this would mean it wouldn’t start to affect them until that night. I have a hard time believing that. I would think of something is ingested & in their crop it could leach into thise tissues & get into their bloodstream but would love to see someone post research on this rather than conjecture.

 

[Aapomp831]

My roosters are about 10mos old. I don’t buy that something in their crop could not start to be taken up into their system tho. By your argument, if they ingested a toxin like fertilizer, this would mean it wouldn’t start to affect them until that night. I have a hard time believing that. I would think of something is ingested & in their crop it could leach into thise tissues & get into their bloodstream but would love to see someone post research on this rather than conjecture.

https://www.hobbyfarms.com/chicken-digestive-health-chickens-guide-tips/

 

[LaFleche]

I have 2 roos in 1 coop on 1 side of my property & the 1 other roo in a coop completely on the other side of my property. The 2 groups do not interact with eachother. They stay on their separate sides. The type of holly on your property is not in the group that contains theobromine so you could not
know for sure how yours would react if they ingested this. Since they have never behaved this way before & the only thing different was the ingestion of those berries it would appear the true coincidence would be if the berries DIDN’T have anything to do with this sudden ingestion.

Well, following your line of thought that the theobromine would have caused the aggressive reaction, feeding them something like cocoa/chocolate, Ilex paraguariensis (mate tea plant) Camellia sinensis (tea plant)or cola nut should cause the same reaction as it contains quite a lot of theobromine.

I have not found studies on chickens, but the normal attributes linked to theobromine ingestion are not of aggression, but moodlifting, diurectic and when overdosing leading to headaches, visual problems and tachycardia.

ETA: https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=jbs.2013.570.576

 

[LaFleche]

Since they have never behaved this way before & the only thing different was the ingestion of those berries it would appear the true coincidence would be if the berries DIDN’T have anything to do with this sudden ingestion.

I do not deny your interesting observations, but unless you will repeat this several times and experience the same reactions, it will just be an assumption.

My roosters are about 10mos old.

That is the perfect age for riots and fights to start among cockerels of the same age that until then got along well enough.

Just wait and even without the berries the fights will become more frequent. And in spring when hormones rage it can get even lethal.

 

[KoopinItReal]

I do not deny your interesting observations, but unless you will repeat this several times and experience the same reactions, it will just be an assumption.



That is the perfect age for riots and fights to start among cockerels of the same age that until then got along well enough.

Just wait and even without the berries the fights will become more frequent. And in spring when hormones rage it can get even lethal.

Right, I understand that & with their ages I have been watching, but just too much of a coincidence that all 3 suddenly raged on the same day, all within a half hour on the berries. I am thinking of giving it a few days & letting them have some more to see what happens.