Horse stall to coop, hardware cloth questions, electric poultry netting question

[misneachfarm]

Hello,

I just bought a 2 acre farm that has a 3 stall shed barn that looks like this:

I want to turn one of the stalls into a chicken coop and had a few questions.

1. The stalls have hard packed dirt floors but there is a bit of a gap between some of the walls and the floor - do I need to bury hardware cloth there or can I just put some along the ground and wall so it forms kind of a T shape? I am worried I may not be able to dig down since it is hard packed dirt/clay.

2. What size hardware cloth is needed, 1/2 inch or 1/4 inch, and is that needed everywhere, or can I use some 2"x4" fencing and just put the hardware cloth where I'm concerned about things reaching in, like the first two feet up? I am in North Carolina, so snakes are a bit of a concern here.

3. Where is the cheapest place to buy hardware cloth? I've seen a few posts here mention wayfair, but I've seen it cheaper on Amazon. Not sure if an in person place would be cheapest, but on Amazon you can get a 4ft x 50ft roll of 1/4 inch for $75.

4. I am thinking about getting electric poultry netting but am wondering if it is worth it if I don't have a moveable coop that can just stay inside the netting. Should I put my money toware building a permanent run instead and just let them free range only when I'm home (I have a large vegetable garden that I don't want them getting into)? What kind of shelter would 15 hens need if they are only in the poultry netting during the day? (nevermind the question of how I will get 15 chickens moved into it every morning if I want to move it around each day, lol)

5. Another question would be, since I'm going to need to enclose a large portion of the stall in hardware cloth anyway, is it just as cheap to build a mobile coop and get the electric poultry netting? My budget is super limited, which is why I was thinking converting the stall might be the nest option.

5. Do the chicks need nesting boxes right away, or can a build be done in stages?

I am also not sure exactly what kind of predators are in my area so I'm not 100% sure if I need to worry about protecting them from hawks. I do intend to eventually get livestock protection dogs, but that is probably at least a year down the line.

6. If hawks are a concern, is electric poultry netting with a shelter inside safe enough or am I better off just building an enclosed permanent run?

I'd really rather rotate the chickens around the pasture and garden for fertilization and chicken well-being but I want to make sure they are protected as well. Any input is greatly appreciated!

 

[misneachfarm]

So I ended up buying 1/2" hardware cloth because it is a lower gauge (19) than the 1/4" (23) so I figure it will be sturdier. I also did an excel sheet comparing hardware cloth prices at Amazon, Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, Tractor Supply, and Wayfair, and Amazon was tied for the cheapest with Walmart, not including shipping. Because I'm a Prime member I get free shipping with Amazon, so I ordered 1 roll of 3ft x 50ft and 1 roll of 4ft x 50ft. Hopefully that will be enough to enclose the horse stall - I am thinking I may do a little hardware cloth vestibule so I don't have escapees every time I come in the coop, also so I don't have to figure out how to hardware cloth a half stall door. My other questions are still relevant, though. I think I will hold off on electric netting at least until after this weekend - I am speaking at the Mother Earth News Fair in Asheville and Premier One is one of the sponsors and always has booths there, so I will talk to them.

 

[Wandercreek]

Hardware cloth laid directly on the ground isn't super secure. Clever predators will dig right under it or just rip it away entirely. I once lost my entire flock because I assumed that chainlink was a strong enough barrier on my run. The culprit was my very own labrador retriever. He mangled that chainlink and decimated the flock. I don't know what predators you have, but dogs are everywhere.

A good safety feature against many predators is to locate the roost pole in a way that things cannot reach it or climb up to it.

If I had the set-up that you show in your photo, I would use an end stall and create a strong, permanent run that encompasses the front, back, and end. I would divide that run into 2 sections and rotate the chickens between the two in order to allow the ground to rest and regrow. If it is large enough, 3 sections would be even better. You can reseed sections that are not in use. This would eliminate the need for a hardware cloth vestibule because you would enter through a gate in the front pen before opening the coop door. You also wouldn't need to wrap the stall with hardware cloth. You would just need to focus on openings towards the middle stall side.

A 2 ft tall wrap of hardware cloth over fencing with larger openings is fine for preventing reach through although it won't keep snakes out. Snakes might take chicks, but they won't bother hens. They do like eggs.

As for electric fencing, in my experience, it isn't secure against larger predators...like dogs. Dogs tend to go into killing frenzies and a little zap isn't going to faze them when they are in that frame of mind. I personally don't trust it. Since you said you have a 2 acre farm, my guess is that you are rural, but have nearby neighbors that would certainly have dogs within earshot of your chickens.

 

[misneachfarm]

My neighbors definitely do have dogs, although the whole property is fenced for horses, so they would have to dig under. I know at least one neighbor has chickens as well because I hear crowing sometimes. I agree that ideally I would have a large permanent run I'm just not sure I can afford that much fencing material. As far as situating roosts, some of my birds are brahmas, and I have heard that they can have problems with really high roosts, so I'm not sure what to do about that. For this month I will probably enclose just the stall and build some sort of tractor for when I'm home, then when I can afford more fencing I will work on enclosing some permanent runs. I have about 350 sq feet of hardware cloth ordered, but that isn't enough to do runs unless I rip up some of the horse fencing for the upper parts, lol.

 

[Wandercreek]

That's interesting. I didn't know that about Brahmas. I don't have any, but I sure do like them. Perhaps you can put a high and low roost and see how the birds take to them.

Many of us start out doing the best we can with what we have, all the while dreaming of and saving up for larger, nicer, more secure housing for our flock. You have a good start with your horse stall. Just secure the heck out of it and go from there. Good luck!

 

[misneachfarm]

That's interesting. I didn't know that about Brahmas. I don't have any, but I sure do like them. Perhaps you can put a high and low roost and see how the birds take to them.

Many of us start out doing the best we can with what we have, all the while dreaming of and saving up for larger, nicer, more secure housing for our flock. You have a good start with your horse stall. Just secure the heck out of it and go from there. Good luck!

Well, that was what I thought, that it would be cheaper (plus use something I otherwise won't right now, 2 acres just isn't enough to be able to rotate pastures properly for my horses - they are big fat Gypsy Vanners), but now I'm kicking myself a bit because I could have just bought a coop kit for cheaper than securing the stall if I had stuck to my original planned 6 to 8 chickens instead of the 15 I ended up with.

 

[PD-Riverman]

some of my birds are brahmas, and I have heard that they can have problems with really high roosts, so I'm not sure what to do about that.

My roost are in steps and the brahma go to the top and leave the bottoms open. never heard that they have a problem, but I have only raised a few hundred though.

 

[misneachfarm]

My roost are in steps and the brahma go to the top and leave the bottoms open. never heard that they have a problem, but I have only raised a few hundred though.

What I have seen people say over on the Brahma thread is that they have occasionally hurt themselves jumping down from high roosts or that they think it contributes to arthritis later in life due to repeated impact from jumping down, but in your set up it looks like they probably have to jump down to each step so I don't think it would be a concern. I also have lots of little trees and shrubs and things that I want to take down around my property, so if I use those branches it would be cost effective as well...now to lure my dad back up here with his chainsaw and carpentry expertise...

 

[harveyhorses]

I don't know if there is one near you, but Agri Supply has by far the best price for hardware cloth, I got a 48 x 50 ft. roll for the same as Lowes wanted for a 25 ft roll and a heavier gauge. Also really good price for T posts.
I LOVE electric fence, it will turn a charging dog if it's hooked up right. The one thing I don't like about the Poultry netting is the height. If you run it tight and high with strands 12-18 inches apart it will keep most things out, but not chickens in. Which is why I do like the Poultry Netting.
if you go with electric Buy a good charger and make sure you bury the ground rod and keep weeds off it.
Good luck and have fun.

 

[Ridgerunner]

1. The stalls have hard packed dirt floors but there is a bit of a gap between some of the walls and the floor - do I need to bury hardware cloth there or can I just put some along the ground and wall so it forms kind of a T shape? I am worried I may not be able to dig down since it is hard packed dirt/clay.

What you need is an apron. Lay about 18” to 24” flat on the ground around it and bend it to an “L” so it reaches up to the solid side. Then firmly attach it to the bottom of the stall. You don’t have to bury the flat portion, just weigh it down, but a lot of folks cover it with about 2” of dirt. What that amounts to is you take up the grass and roots then put them over the wire. That gets the wire away from weed eaters and lawn mowers.

The idea is that a predator goes up to the wall and starts to dig. They hit the wire and do not know to back up. It’s extremely effective.

2. What size hardware cloth is needed, 1/2 inch or 1/4 inch, and is that needed everywhere, or can I use some 2"x4" fencing and just put the hardware cloth where I'm concerned about things reaching in, like the first two feet up? I am in North Carolina, so snakes are a bit of a concern here.

You are probably not going to be able to keep snakes out of there if they want in. All they need is an opening about 1” and a snake big enough to eat an egg or swallow a baby chick can get through. You can try if you want but good luck.

I used 2x4 fencing for my main run and most of my apron. I also used some hardware cloth for apron, just whatever wire I had left over. That 2x4 wire will stop about anything bigger than a snake, mouse, rat or small weasel. I lined the parts I did into want reach through (or baby chicks going through) with chicken wire.

Yes there are some critters that can get through anything: chicken wire, hardware cloth, welded 2x4 fencing, even chain link. A bear if nothing else though some big dogs can do a lot of damage. Anything you use will offer some protection. The heavier the gauge and the tighter the mesh the stronger it is. And don’t forget the attachments. Sometimes the wire is not damaged, it’s just pulled loose because your screws, nails, or wood failed. I’ve been OK for several years with the chicken wire/2x4 run fencing but I realize whatever I do has risks. How much do you want to spend? 3

3. Where is the cheapest place to buy hardware cloth? I've seen a few posts here mention wayfair, but I've seen it cheaper on Amazon. Not sure if an in person place would be cheapest, but on Amazon you can get a 4ft x 50ft roll of 1/4 inch for $75.

I don’t know.

4. I am thinking about getting electric poultry netting but am wondering if it is worth it if I don't have a moveable coop that can just stay inside the netting. Should I put my money toware building a permanent run instead and just let them free range only when I'm home (I have a large vegetable garden that I don't want them getting into)? What kind of shelter would 15 hens need if they are only in the poultry netting during the day? (nevermind the question of how I will get 15 chickens moved into it every morning if I want to move it around each day, lol)

How do you get the chickens in? Lock them in at night when they are roosting. They are easier to catch when they are contained.

There is no easy answer to this question, we do it so many different ways. A lot of it comes down to personal preference and how hard you want to work. I wound up making my poultry netting permanent, it was more work to move it around than I wanted to commit to. If I had it to do again, I’d build a permanent fence using 2x4 wire and use electric wire around that.

5. Another question would be, since I'm going to need to enclose a large portion of the stall in hardware cloth anyway, is it just as cheap to build a mobile coop and get the electric poultry netting? My budget is super limited, which is why I was thinking converting the stall might be the nest option.

Sounds like you’ve committed to the hardware cloth.

6. Do the chicks need nesting boxes right away, or can a build be done in stages?

For many different reasons I suggest you have the nests installed and open at 16 weeks.

I am also not sure exactly what kind of predators are in my area so I'm not 100% sure if I need to worry about protecting them from hawks. I do intend to eventually get livestock protection dogs, but that is probably at least a year down the line.

Again, a hard question to answer. Hawks, eagles, and owls can and will take chickens. I have red-tailed hawks all over the place here but they are just not a problem even inside my open electric netting area. Other people have all kinds of problems with hawks. I don’t know how big a problem they will actually be for you.

If hawks are a concern, is electric poultry netting with a shelter inside safe enough or am I better off just building an enclosed permanent run?

I don’t know.

I don’t put much faith in them being on a roost giving them much protection. If they can get in the coop a raccoon, possum, bobcat, weasel, mink, or fox can get up there to get them. Your best bet is to try to keep them from getting in there to start with.

The way I determine roost height is to determine the coop floor height, including any bedding. Then position the nests. Since chickens like to sleep at the highest point available, make the roosts about a foot higher than anything you don’t want them sleeping on or in.

I agree the best thing for you to do is to try something. Be flexible. When something doesn’t work out the way you plan, try something different. Nobody can plan well enough to cover everything without a lot of experience. We all have different goals, set-ups, flocks, and personal preferences. I can’t tell you what to do in your unique situation. I would have the nests open at 16 weeks but there are people on this forum that will argue with me about that. What you get on here are our opinions based on our experiences. We all have different opinions and experiences. Just do the best you reasonably can and be flexible. You will probably do OK.

Good luck!