Managing my flock (roosters!) going forward!

[PouleChick]

Hi! I have 3 sets of chicks with thier mamas, the eldest are 10 weeks (mama just left them - 2 gorgeous roos - one Orpington splash mix with cochin or something - not sure, the other a pure white Araucana and Edwina a lovely shy Araucana pullet), the middle lot of 5 (1 Faverolles pullet, plus some opringtons and Australorps - sex not yet known) 6 weeks, and 3 weeks for the 6 babies (a tiny bantam cochin, 3 Vorwerks and 2 Marans).

Originally my plan was for any roos to go to freezer camp but after reading a bijillion articles on here and quite liking my 2 roo boys I'm reconsidering. The big orp guy seems particularly sweet, when his mum was being picked on in the big coop and decided to sleep on the ramp (it is all enclosed and part of the coop there are just 2 levels with roosts upstairs) he stayed with her, then Edwina has been trying to sleep in the hazel nut tree in the run and he has taken to staying with her until I come and get her and put her to bed. The other is quite skittish so not sure but he seems scared more than anything. However I realise they are still babies and not hit the dreaded teen roo stage yet. There will obviously be more roos coming up the ranks with lot 2 and 3 of the babies as well. I have 5 other hens - 3 x 8 month old girls (one of which is broody 3 - a big lovely white sussex and I think head lady, one of the others who is a bit of a bully and her sidekick who is pretty sweet to everyone), plus 2 silkies - one who is as docile as anything and the other who is a feisty warrier (they are the other 2 mamas).

I have read lots and lots of threads and articles but can't find the exact answers to what I'm wondering.
I'm obviously going to have to get rid of some of the roos as in theory 1/2 of my 14 chicks will be roos. I'm wondering if a gorgeous (and rare for here bird) like my lovely Araucana would actually be able to be sold for breeding? But then I want to breed some green egg layers so thinking I'd like to keep him (as Edwina is my only blue layer that worked) and just as he seems lovely the spotty Orp', if one of the Marans is a male I'm thinking him too. so if 7 are girls plus my 5 bigs would be 12 hens so obviously this can't work with 3 roos. I like the idea of waiting until they are older to make my choice and could give them their own set up somewhere if I had to.
I guess what I'm wondering is:

• when are they going to start going a bit hormonal and teenage boy on us?
  
• when would they need to be moved out of the flock?
  
• should all the roos be moved at the same time?
• Is there anyway that if I only kept say 3 roos that the older hens would keep them in line and they could stay in the flock for any period of time after starting to go a bit hormonal? Or could 1 stay or can they be rotated?
  
• If I make early decisions when I know the genders and some are for freezer camp when should I do that (weeks)?
• If you were going to sell an interesting breed rooster what would be the age to do this? All my birds are heritage breeds and other than the Marans are pretty rare and I was just lucky to have breeders near me so thinking this could be an option too.

Sorry for the long rambling post just realising that time is moving on and they are getting older (and bigger!) and that I'll need to get my plans in place now it isn't a clear freezer camp for all (why didnt' I know this would happen ). The Araucana is magnificent and glossy white - really don't want to see him in a stew pot!

Thanks in advance for any help / advise.

 

[Mosey2003]

They'll likely start crowing by at least 12 weeks. 18 weeks is a good age for freezer camp, they're about as big as they'll get without feeding for months more and still not terribly chewy. If you don't have at least ten hens per each male you want to keep, they're going to fight with each other if they're all together, possibly to the death.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You now I won't give you any hard and fast numbers, but here goes. Good to hear from you again, buy the way.

• when are they going to start going a bit hormonal and teenage boy on us?

Could start as early as 12 weeks, might not be until five or even six months. I usually see it start with at least some at 4 months. They mature at greatly different rates. Sometimes the first to mature seem to delay or suppress late developers.

• when would they need to be moved out of the flock?

I generally don't move them out of the flock. I usually leave pullets and cockerels to grow up with the flock. Maybe one year out of five the boys get so rowdy that I put some of them in my grow-out pen until butcher age, but usually it is not necessary. Mine grow up with the flock from hatch, either with a broody hen or in my brooder which is in the coop. That plus having a lot of room makes a difference.

Do not count on the genders being split that close to 50-50. I regularly have hatches or even years of several hatches where the split is 2/3 one way or the other. Over the years it balances out close to 50-50 but in the short term it can be really unbalanced. For example my first incubator hatch a couple of years ago was 15 cockerels and 4 pullets. The next broody hatch was 3 cockerels and 1 pullet. My next broody hatch was 5 cockerels and 7 pullets. But if I combine those with the previous year it was real close to 50-50. Whether or not I isolate cockerels in the grow-out pen had nothing to do with ratio of male to female, I based it on behavior.

• should all the roos be moved at the same time?

I've always just done one group the same age and left the later hatches with the flock. Behaviorwise this has never come up.

• Is there anyway that if I only kept say 3 roos that the older hens would keep them in line and they could stay in the flock for any period of time after starting to go a bit hormonal? Or could 1 stay or can they be rotated?

You can try it either way. I'm just not that rigid, I base it on behaviors, not certain ratios or ages. I've never rotated, if i'm considering one to be a replacement rooster I generally leave them with the flock, observe an evaluate.

• If I make early decisions when I know the genders and some are for freezer camp when should I do that (weeks)?

You might get a book on this one, there are so many things to consider. You can eat any chicken, regardless of age or gender. The older they get the more you have to watch how you cook them. Cockerels develop more flavor when the hormones hit and the meat has more texture. Since cockerels mature at different rates you can get differences in individuals the same age. If you are used to the supermarket chicken, the Cornish X, those re generally butchered around 6 to 8 weeks old. Those can be cooked any way, including frying or grilling. Some people are OK frying or grilling a 16 week old cockerel, some find anything older than 12 weeks to be too tough for them. How do you expect to cook them? That could have a lot to say about butcher age.

At 12 weeks they are not going to have much meat on them but you can get them before they go hormonal. Usually by 16 weeks they have filled out a lot more but there is still not a lot of meat there. The early maturing ones will have more meat (breed being equivalent) than the late maturing ones. I generally butcher at 23 weeks, well too old to fry or grill but they bake nicely.

• If you were going to sell an interesting breed rooster what would be the age to do this? All my birds are heritage breeds and other than the Marans are pretty rare and I was just lucky to have breeders near me so thinking this could be an option too.

This is certainly an option with rare breeds. Do you have the equivalent to Craigslist, an online market? I have no idea how much to charge but you can pretty much sell them at any age. One problem might be to find a buyer, there is some luck in who logs in at that time. When you sell or give them away, you have lost control. They may wind up being eaten anyway.

 

[PouleChick]

They'll likely start crowing by at least 12 weeks.

So I have to start listening out in the next couple of weeks!

You now I won't give you any hard and fast numbers, but here goes. Good to hear from you again, buy the way.

And I like that - your down to earth advice that I've used so far has been great! Thanks - I have been on most days but not posting on as many threads or starting many as been busy with end of school now have the 3.5 year old home all day so not the same as in school time!

Could start as early as 12 weeks, might not be until five or even six months.

Ahhh that is really interesting so I may have quite a while of breathing space before we see anything happening. Is this age also the age (and obviously totally varied) that they will start wanting to service the hens?

I generally don't move them out of the flock. I usually leave pullets and cockerels to grow up with the flock. Maybe one year out of five the boys get so rowdy that I put some of them in my grow-out pen until butcher age, but usually it is not necessary. Mine grow up with the flock from hatch, either with a broody hen or in my brooder which is in the coop. That plus having a lot of room makes a difference.

I'm glad this is an option to leave them and wait and see - I was reading things and thinking I needed to make a bachelor pad in the next week or 2! I'd much rather leave them with the flock. They have lots of space - currently have 3 coops all in the same runs so space to get right away if they need to and i'm just about to double their day run size too.

I regularly have hatches or even years of several hatches where the split is 2/3 one way or the other.

Ahhh I'd forgotten that - one of the breeders I got my first eggs from said the same thing. Looking like it might be a boy year here with 3/4 of the first batch being boys! I really need to go and sit a while and take some pics and try to work out what I have in the 2nd lot!

I base it on behaviors, not certain ratios or ages.

Really good advice - I think I worry about getting it 'right' for my chooks but actually just winging it and work out what my particular birds need is a good plan!

How do you expect to cook them?

Ummmm I guess just roasted / baked as I've never butchered a bird before so not sure how I'd go trying to cut it up into pieces! I'm quite a good cook but have always been a bit funny about bones so not a skill I've ever learnt

This is certainly an option with rare breeds. Do you have the equivalent to Craigslist, an online market? I have no idea how much to charge but you can pretty much sell them at any age. One problem might be to find a buyer, there is some luck in who logs in at that time. When you sell or give them away, you have lost control. They may wind up being eaten anyway.

Yes we do 'Le Bon Coin' - I'm not worried really about them being eaten - I had to confront that decision of course when I put those first eggs under Hermione the Warrior Silkie! What would worry me more was if they were used for fighting or something but not even sure that goes on here. I guess once I've made the decisions on who to keep I can try to sell and if not in the pot!

So it seems like the answers have given more questions for me!

I generally butcher at 23 weeks, well too old to fry or grill but they bake nicely.

And if older than that are they edible in say the slowcooker in a stew or does the flavour go too strong?
So in terms of me wanting to potentially keep a roo (or 2?) if I left it until then (so just over 6 months) will they be showing me what sort of bird they are likely to be or do they potentially get aggressive etc later? How on earth do I choose who to keep and who goes (and potentially kill the best ever roo??) ?
And if I do say end up with 2/3 roos I'd have 9 or 10 - how would that work out if I did keep them all until 23 weeks?

Thanks!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Ahhh that is really interesting so I may have quite a while of breathing space before we see anything happening. Is this age also the age (and obviously totally varied) that they will start wanting to service the hens?

Yes, it can vary with age but you will probably see two behaviors, both about domination more than pure sex. Especially at this age the mating act is more about dominance than pure sex. The one on bottom is accepting the dominance of the one on to, either willingly or by force. At this age it is usually by force, that's why it can get so rough. Even though their "sisters" aren't old enough (not yet laying) they will try to force them. The pullets will probably try to run away. They will probably also try to force the mature hens. The hens may just run away, they may submit (not likely), or they may beat the snot out of the boys. It's this kind of behavior it can be hard for some people to watch.

The older cockerels will decide which one is boss. This could mean some pretty serious fights, but usually it's more of a skirmish where one quickly decides he is better off running away than fighting. With both these behaviors, mating and fighting, chickens are seldom hurt if they have room to run away, but you can wind up with dead or seriously injured chickens.

I'm glad this is an option to leave them and wait and see - I was reading things and thinking I needed to make a bachelor pad in the next week or 2! I'd much rather leave them with the flock. They have lots of space - currently have 3 coops all in the same runs so space to get right away if they need to and i'm just about to double their day run size too.

It is a good thing to be prepared, be able to activate Plan B on short notice. If you need to create a bachelor pad pretty quickly how would you do it.

And if older than that are they edible in say the slowcooker in a stew or does the flavour go too strong?

Some of us really like the flavor of an older bird, some don't. Personal preference. There are all kinds of ways to cook older birds. Coq au Vin is how your neighbors make a gourmet meal out of a really old rooster, but use a traditional recipe involving marinating and really slow cooking. Some recipes assume you are using a Cornish X from the store. A pressure cooker will give good meat. I've used a slow cooker (crock pot) to cook older birds. One problem is that the meat can get so tender it falls off the bone. So take it off the bone and use the meat for tacos, soups, stews, or casseroles. Chicken 'N Dumplings is an American comfort food made with older chickens. If you make stews or soups, never bring then to a boil. You want a very slow simmer.

For mine at 5 to 6 months my current favorite recipe is to cut them into serving pieces, rinse them off but don't dry them, then coat them with herbs. I usually use basil and oregano but suite yourself and your tastes. I put these in a baking dish with a lid that seals really well and bake that for about 3 to 4 hours at 250 degrees F (120 C). Be careful when you take them out with a slotted spoon, the meat might fall off the bone.

There should be some liquid in the bottom of that baking dish. You can use that as broth. I save that, the bones from the meal, and parts of the butchered chicken like back, neck, heart, gizzard, wings if they are not part of the serving pieces, and the feet to make broth. I know where the feet have been. If I blanch them without overcooking the nails twist out and the skin peels pretty easily. That gets them clean enough for me. I put all that in a crock pot, along with a dozen peppercorns, a bay leaf, a rough chopped carrot, celery, garlic, and onion, and whatever herbs I want and cook that on low for 12 to 18 hours. Fill the crock pot with water to cover everything. You can do this in an oven or on top of the stove in a suitable pot. Put a lid on so the liquid does not evaporate away. Strain and de-fat the liquid, you have the best chicken broth you will ever taste. If you pick the meat out, a lot will have cooked off the bone, you have cooked meat for tacos, casseroles, whatever. But be careful there can be a lot of small bones.

You have all kinds of options on how to cook an older bird. People that say you cannot just don't know how.

So in terms of me wanting to potentially keep a roo (or 2?) if I left it until then (so just over 6 months) will they be showing me what sort of bird they are likely to be or do they potentially get aggressive etc later? How on earth do I choose who to keep and who goes (and potentially kill the best ever roo??)

This is not easy. They can change personalities as they mature. Normally they go from a wild out of control teenager to a calm responsible mature adult, but not always. They can become human aggressive. Don't let your kids chase the hens or chicks and make a rooster think they are a threat to his flock. Sometimes they flip and you have no idea why.

But another big problem in accessing them is that the dominant one will suppress the behaviors (good and bad) of the non-dominant cockerels. If you remove the dominant one and put another in charge they can change behaviors. There is a lot of pressure on a dominant rooster to perform all his duties and take care of his flock. Some can handle that better than others. The females have a part to play in this too. They accept some males easier than others.

If you try putting just one cockerel with the flock while the others are in a bachelor pad you can get an idea of how they behave when in charge, but they are still immature. They can still change as they age and the way the hens accept them can change, usually for the better.

I struggle with this. I don't find it easy. I have made mistakes.

And if I do say end up with 2/3 roos I'd have 9 or 10 - how would that work out if I did keep them all until 23 weeks?

As I said in that other post I don't go by ratios I go by behaviors. Some years I have a lot more cockerels than pullets and don't have problems. Some years I have a lot more pullets than cockerels and do have problems. I usually (not always but usually) have a mature rooster in the flock, that can help but it's just another variable.

One thing that will happen if you wait is that you will have a lot to deal with at one time, either butcher or try to get rid of. Their might be a learning curve. You might consider practicing in some that you know you will not keep. Narrow it down as you go. That's how I approach it.

 

[PouleChick]

Thank you once again for your lovely detailed reply - really appreciate it! Sorry it has taken me so long to reply!

It's this kind of behavior it can be hard for some people to watch.

Yep really not looking forward to it I already get sad with the hens squabbling. Iḿ hoping long term it helps having a roo though - I saw a hen picking on another at my neighbours and the roo came up and sorted them out - it was very cool and what started me thinking they may not be too bad!

The older cockerels will decide which one is boss

Unless it changes I think they already have - the Araucana seems to always give in to the bigger Orp mix one even from quite small when I first got suspicious they were roos and fighting!

If you need to create a bachelor pad pretty quickly how would you do it.

It depends a little bit - does it need to be away from the hens? I can run some fencing to make them an area next to and use one of the small coops we built for the broodies or if they need to be away I can potentially put a sleeping area in one of the barns and run fencing there then they would be away.

Some of us really like the flavor of an older bird, some don't. Personal preference

I guess that is a wait and see for me then!

You have all kinds of options on how to cook an older bird. People that say you cannot just don't know how.

Thanks for all your recipes - sounds yum!

They can become human aggressive. Don't let your kids chase the hens or chicks and make a rooster think they are a threat to his flock. Sometimes they flip and you have no idea why.

That is my biggest concern and why I was originally anti roo! My 3.5 year old is pretty loud and runs about like a loon but he cant get in the runs without me (latch too high). Once they get past the adolecent stage can this still happen (the flipping) or once they are settled (1-2 years?) do they stay how they are.

I struggle with this. I don't find it easy. I have made mistakes.

Iḿ guessing I will too!

If you try putting just one cockerel with the flock while the others are in a bachelor pad you can get an idea of how they behave when in charge, but they are still immature. They can still change as they age and the way the hens accept them can change, usually for the better.

If I end up needing the bachelor pad I may well try this to help me get it right!! Although Iḿ hoping if I keep the 2 big roosters who are brothers (hatch wise) they will be OK as they have always been together and Iĺl get rid of the others once they are eating size!

You might consider practicing in some that you know you will not keep. Narrow it down as you go. That's how I approach it.

I think I will try to do that - certainly the Vorwerks were just a spontaneous purchase as that was what the guy had (and they are lovely looking birds!) and there are 3 orps / Australorps adn I think 1 if not 2 of them are roos so they can go first (they are 6 weeks now).

Just need to find time to go and sit down there and take my camera to try to work out what I have!

 

[PouleChick]

Another random thought - if my one tiny bantam pekin is a roo how does that fit into things (obviously wont' be big enough to eat ) ? Iḿ guessing he wouldnt be mating any of the girls due to size (maybe the silkies I guess) or would the big roos just kill him if I kept him as well?

 

[RWise]

Dont count him out because he is little, my oldest rooster is from a bantam silkie frizzle over a large blue ameraucana. The lady I bought her from (she was at end of molt) told me he was grabbing feathers in the center of her back and ganging off,, I put her first egg in the incubator, and hatched the rooster

 

[aart]

Another random thought - if my one tiny bantam pekin is a roo how does that fit into things (obviously wont' be big enough to eat ) ? Iḿ guessing he wouldnt be mating any of the girls due to size (maybe the silkies I guess) or would the big roos just kill him if I kept him as well?

Any size bird is edible.
He may not be able to 'reach' to inseminate the larger girls, not that he won't try.
Mixing bantam and large fowl can work....or not...have read both successes and failures.

 

[Mosey2003]

You can build your bachelor pen next to the others, but you need to make the walls solid a few feet high because they will fight through fence if they can see each other.

On the aggression, I usually see them come after me sometime after 12 months, but usually before 18 months. It will vary by individual. You have to watch how you interact with the hens. If you need to pick a hen up, it's best to pick him up and put him in a cage where he can't see what you're up to. He'll get upset when he hears the hens squawk.