Muddy Smelly Run (sorry)

[Chicken36]

Hey guys,

I am fairly new to chickens and I know I am beating a dead horse here, but just wanted to get some thoughts.

I have a 10x10 run that houses 10 hens (that do get out from time to time) and I’ve had a ton of success with simply adding straw/hay when needed. Expierenced very little smell and had to do very little run maintainence honestly.

We’ve had some ridiculously wet weather and my master (newbie) plan has struggled. I have the notorious wet, nasty, wreaking mess.

The run is half covered and is graded properly. I think the excess rain and my laziness during the holidays has contributed to the problem. I think I am going to go the coarse sand route like many do here.

My question is do I need to rake/shovel out that wet ‘matted’ mud, poop, straw mess and get a base layer of just dirt before I add my sand or would you guys just put sand overtop? I am assuming this is a dumb question (remove the smell remove the source) but I wanted to ask before I did it.

Also, when cleaning this stuff out are than any precautions I need to take outside of normal chicken hygiene (wearing gloves, boots, thoroughly washing, etc etc etc). I am probably being over cautious, it’s just a wreaking nasty mess of bacteria so just looking for any insight so that I can get my run back in clean order.


thanks for any help!!!

 

[rosemarythyme]

Any particular reason you want to go with sand vs deep litter? If the run routinely gets soaking wet and you're not able to scoop out poop regularly, sand might not be the best choice, as bits of poop will start washing down into the sand and cause stinking all over again.

Since you don't have location listed, what's your climate like? Sand IMO works best in a dry climate. Do you know what other chicken keepers in your area use as far as run flooring?

 

[Chicken36]

Any particular reason you want to go with sand vs deep litter? If the run routinely gets soaking wet and you're not able to scoop out poop regularly, sand might not be the best choice, as bits of poop will start washing down into the sand and cause stinking all over again.

Since you don't have location listed, what's your climate like? Sand IMO works best in a dry climate. Do you know what other chicken keepers in your area use as far as run flooring?

Thanks for the reply!
I am in Woodstock, Georgia so deal with a mild climate, mostly dry, but do get our seasonal rains for sure. I am not particular to any method! I will do whatever works, I just assumed the deep litter method would cause a similar smell only because the water (which will get there, regardless) will get trapped in the litter.

Although the sand may be a bit more upkeep, I can at least rake/clean out a little easier when it’s needed.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Deep litter, if done correctly, will let water drain through, assuming drainage in the run area is good. It should also help stabilize the soil as it builds up - I had a huge mud issue before I started deep litter, to the point that my boots were getting yanked off my feet by deep mud, but it has completely cleared up since then. There should be little to no smell as you're building up healthy bacteria in the soil plus adding "browns" to compost down the poop.

I hope someone who uses sand in your climate/similar climate can chime in, so you can weigh your options and choose what will work best for you.

 

[Birdinhand]

I've had good luck with deep litter and covering my entire run. I live in the pacific northwest where we get many months of wet whether through the winter/spring. for me here in the subburbs, I can't imagine being able to make an uncovered run work. with a dry run, hay and dirt and droppings get tilled constantly by the scratching and pecking of the hens and it all remains remarkably unstinky. I shovel it out about once a year or so and run it through the composter and it makes great gardening soil.

 

[aart]

I just assumed the deep litter method would cause a similar smell only because the water (which will get there, regardless) will get trapped in the litter.

But the 'deep litter' (I prefer to use mostly large wood chippings, and they don't need to be very 'deep') will help break down and absorb the nitrates/ammonia in the poops.
Sand doesn't not promote nor allow that breakdown.

 

[Punkybrewster]

The one time i put hay and straw in the run it made a horrible smelly mess when it rained too. Something about the combination and breakdown of the hay causes that odor. Never again.
Use regular wood chips not cedar or gather old leaves in the woods or both. It makes a good base litter and i dont have an odor even when it rains.

 

[featherhead007]

AArt, is so right on this! I use deep litter method too, and it works for happy hens!
but, still clean up the poop if you can!

 

[RaZ]

I agree with Aart. I use a deep litter in my run that consists of wood chips from local tree trimmers with straw mixed in plus leaves, lots of leaves. My coop and run are in the woods and is mostly shaded in summer. Substrate is clay and rocks. The rocks and tree roots prohibit any roto-tilling so I rely on the chickens scratching around to mix and help break down the litter.

I live in Michigan near the big lake. We get a lot of rain and lake effect moisture year round. It can get quite muddy here but my run has decent drainage. I also have a sand pit on my property and dumped about a yard of "sugar sand" in the run. I didn't care for it.

Have you tried mixing in some PDZ? That might help since you have a smaller run.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Lets look at the physics and biology of your situation. Chickens poop a lot so you will be dealing with chicken poop. If the bacteria that break down chicken poop or any organic bedding can breathe air they are going to be aerobic. Those produce a nice earthy smell. If they are so wet air cannot get to them they become an anaerobic strain of microbes, oxygen will kill them. Those stink and can produce a slimy mess. Moisture control is critical.

Water drains through sand really well. The particles are fairly large which creates a lot of void spaces, which gives the water a path to flow. Water will not drain through clay, the particles are too fine so there are very few places for the water to drain through. Gravity causes water to flow downhill. So if you have a sandy run and the water has a place to drain to, it generally stays pretty dry. If your run is clay (they love to dig holes for dust bathing) the water won't drain that well unless it is sloped. Even then expect some mud holes where they dust bathe.

If you dig a hole in clay and fill it with sand or any organic bedding, it will not drain when it rains. You have basically created a bathtub that will hold poop and anything organic, which will stay wet enough to eventually attract those anaerobic microbes. That doesn't happen overnight but can after a few days. It's like an exposed compost pile. If it stays dry enough to breathe you get a nice smell and nice compost. If it stays too wet too long it can become stinky. In most climates that isn't a big problem but some of us can experience periods or really wet weather. If done properly the deep litter method is turning your coop or run into a compost pile.

In many ways if you can keep it dry or where it drains well, many things can work, sand as well as many others. But there are other considerations. The higher the chicken density, the more poop you get in that space. If poop builds up enough it will keep itself wet. That's why under the roosts is often a problem area, they are not moving around at night so the poop really builds up. Some people like sand in the run so they can scoop up the poop on a regular basis to reduce this problem, especially with small runs. Some people change out bedding. Some people have had horrible experiences with sand. Like any tool if it is not used properly it probably isn't going to work very well. It's not that the tool is bad and should be thrown away, just that it was not the right tool for that situation. Sand is certainly not for everybody or every situation but as far as I'm concerned neither is the deep litter method. But where they work they can work well.

When I built my coop and run I put a berm and swale on the uphill side to keep rainwater run-off out. I hauled in a few inches of clay dirt in my coop to build the floor up to help keep it dry. I use wood shavings in my coop as bedding and use droppings boards to remove excess poop. It stays really dry. My run was on a slight rise and is clay. I covered most of it but rain still blows in from the side. It gets wet in wet weather. It's generally not bad from a smell aspect but it can be a muddy mess. I don't use any bedding in the run. I dump a bag of pea gravel in a couple of critical areas to give me pretty firm footing and put some wood out there so the chickens can get up out of the mud. If their feet stay wet they can develop problems but if they can dry them out it's not a big problem. It works for me.

I don't know what the right answer is for you. It might be sand, it might be wood chips, wood shavings, dried leaves, straw, hay, grass clippings, wood or stone steps or walkways to get out of it, or something else. I'll include a link about muddy runs that might give you some ideas. Basically it's keep water out to start with, which can be really challenging in wet weather. Or get the water out when it gets wet, mainly through drainage but evaporation may help. Good luck!

Pat’s Big Ol' Mud Page (fixing muddy runs):

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-to-fix-a-muddy-run-chicken-coop.47807/