Olive Egger breeding formula questions

[Snugglesandwigglespetcare]

Can people please check my formulas for olive Egger breeding and answer some of my qts below? DBR is dark brown egg rooster

1)F1+F1=F2, F2+F2=F3, F3+F3=F4, F4+F4=F5

2)BC1+BC1=BC2, BC2+BC2=BC3, BC3+BC3=BC4, BC4+BC4=BC5

OR

F1+DBR=BC1, BC1+DBR=BC2, BC2+DBR=BC3

3) F2+BC1=? What would this result in?

4)F3+F2R=? Do we need the rooster to also be an F3 to get olive consistency?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I'm not sure what BC stands for (Black Copper?), but I'll give you a simple formula for breeding Olive eggers. I'm going to recommend line breeding for the first couple of generations, which is typically how a good line gets set in chickens.

Start with one really good rooster, dark brown genetics for eggs. Test breeding over a white (or blue) laying hen to see results is often a good idea unless he comes from a very reliable, controlled line.

Breed that rooster over a purebred blue line of girls (example Cream Legbar). F1 will produce olive eggers 100% (but only 1 blue gene). Take the best of those daughters and breed BACK to your original ideal rooster.

F2 produces 50% olive egger hens, deepened olive, 50% brown laying hens, deeper brown, typically.

F3 can be either F2 breedbacks of your olive egger hens back to the dark brown rooster ---or----take your very best F1 and breed to F2. Many prefer taking the best F3 and breeding to best of F4. Your line should be set now.

At this point your first rooster may be aging, so pick a test rooster from F2 or F3 or F4, your best, and breed to a test hen to see results.

Always work with your best stock.

Keeping a dark brown rooster to breed over blue purebred hens and olive layer hens will continue to freshen the dark brown genes necessary for true olive.

Why? Because it takes about 13 genes to perfect brown. Each generation loses some of those genes, so to keep taking later generations for your breeding will quickly breed out the brown. Use a good "stud" rooster as your cornerstone and set at least 3 generations before you test an F3 or F4.

Blue is easy to keep in the line as it is dominant and requires only 1 blue gene for blue shell. It is also naturally easy to select for blue as you set only the blue or olive eggs which have been refreshed by a solid dark brown or olive egger rooster.

In time, you will find your olives lightening to green, and even light green to blue, and you may find imperfections beginning to creep in. At that point you need to refresh genetics in the flock. The easiest way is to purchase (or many will simply give away) a really good quality brown genetic rooster to refreshen those brown genes.

Remember brown is produced (by 13ish genes) by hemoglobin wash over white shell. Olive is produced by hemoglobin wash over blue shell. It is easy to dilute brown in a line with each generation getting lighter and lighter brown unless careful selection and breed back is performed.

Blue is dominant, but there are 2 slots for blue. F1 olive eggers will have only 1 blue gene which means F2 will only produce 50% blue shell carriers. It's easy to select for those carrying blue by the egg color (blue, green, olive). Breeding back those to a brown rooster will produce again 50% blue carrying and 50% clears for blue (brown laying). Breeding your F1 blue shell layers back to a full blue gene rooster will produce 50% single blue gene and 50% double blue gene. Those will be middle olive (typically) which you can then breed back to a dark brown rooster to refreshen that pesky brown that wants to breed out.

Bottom line, start with an excellent dark brown rooster (advice given me by good olive egger breeders) and breed over excellent pure blood blue layers. Then line breed back best daughters for about 3 generations to deepen olive. At that point some fresh genes may be needed by F5...but many lines continue on. However at some point the brown drops out and you find your olive lightening.

My advice.

LofMc

 

[Snugglesandwigglespetcare]

I'm not sure what BC stands for (Black Copper?), but I'll give you a simple formula for breeding Olive eggers. I'm going to recommend line breeding for the first couple of generations, which is typically how a good line gets set in chickens.

Start with one really good rooster, dark brown genetics for eggs. Test breeding over a white (or blue) laying hen to see results is often a good idea unless he comes from a very reliable, controlled line.

Breed that rooster over a purebred blue line of girls (example Cream Legbar). F1 will produce olive eggers 100% (but only 1 blue gene). Take the best of those daughters and breed BACK to your original ideal rooster.

F2 produces 50% olive egger hens, deepened olive, 50% brown laying hens, deeper brown, typically.

F3 can be either F2 breedbacks of your olive egger hens back to the dark brown rooster ---or----take your very best F1 and breed to F2. Many prefer taking the best F3 and breeding to best of F4. Your line should be set now.

At this point your first rooster may be aging, so pick a test rooster from F2 or F3 or F4, your best, and breed to a test hen to see results.

Always work with your best stock.

Keeping a dark brown rooster to breed over blue purebred hens and olive layer hens will continue to freshen the dark brown genes necessary for true olive.

Why? Because it takes about 13 genes to perfect brown. Each generation loses some of those genes, so to keep taking later generations for your breeding will quickly breed out the brown. Use a good "stud" rooster as your cornerstone and set at least 3 generations before you test an F3 or F4.

Blue is easy to keep in the line as it is dominant and requires only 1 blue gene for blue shell. It is also naturally easy to select for blue as you set only the blue or olive eggs which have been refreshed by a solid dark brown or olive egger rooster.

In time, you will find your olives lightening to green, and even light green to blue, and you may find imperfections beginning to creep in. At that point you need to refresh genetics in the flock. The easiest way is to purchase (or many will simply give away) a really good quality brown genetic rooster to refreshen those brown genes.

Remember brown is produced (by 13ish genes) by hemoglobin wash over white shell. Olive is produced by hemoglobin wash over blue shell. It is easy to dilute brown in a line with each generation getting lighter and lighter brown unless careful selection and breed back is performed.

Blue is dominant, but there are 2 slots for blue. F1 olive eggers will have only 1 blue gene which means F2 will only produce 50% blue shell carriers. It's easy to select for those carrying blue by the egg color (blue, green, olive). Breeding back those to a brown rooster will produce again 50% blue carrying and 50% clears for blue (brown laying). Breeding your F1 blue shell layers back to a full blue gene rooster will produce 50% single blue gene and 50% double blue gene. Those will be middle olive (typically) which you can then breed back to a dark brown rooster to refreshen that pesky brown that wants to breed out.

Bottom line, start with an excellent dark brown rooster (advice given me by good olive egger breeders) and breed over excellent pure blood blue layers. Then line breed back best daughters for about 3 generations to deepen olive. At that point some fresh genes may be needed by F5...but many lines continue on. However at some point the brown drops out and you find your olive lightening.

My advice.

LofMc

Oh my goodness!!! This was SO helpful!! BC is BackCross. An OE breeder told me BC lines produce darker olives than F lines. So I am trying to set up a plan. So you would never breed a BC2 xBC2 because the dark brown is diluted? I have spoken to a breeder who said cross breeding the BC produces darker olives than the F lines or even a BC hen to a dark brown rooster. So I am trying to strategize before next season.

This is one chart I have been reviewing. Let me know your thoughts and experience. TY!!!!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I'm not sure why you were told cross breeding a same generation would improve. It also can quicken dilution. I find a dark line bred to a lighter brown line produces a middle tone predominantly between the two.

I had a very respected olive egger breeder recommend the plan I've given and it's worked in my flock. I've seen green deepen with breed backs to the original brown rooster and breed out with f2 and f3 crosses.

Good luck on your program.

LofMc

 

[Carrot_Mama]

I'm not sure what BC stands for (Black Copper?), but I'll give you a simple formula for breeding Olive eggers. I'm going to recommend line breeding for the first couple of generations, which is typically how a good line gets set in chickens.

Start with one really good rooster, dark brown genetics for eggs. Test breeding over a white (or blue) laying hen to see results is often a good idea unless he comes from a very reliable, controlled line.

Breed that rooster over a purebred blue line of girls (example Cream Legbar). F1 will produce olive eggers 100% (but only 1 blue gene). Take the best of those daughters and breed BACK to your original ideal rooster.

F2 produces 50% olive egger hens, deepened olive, 50% brown laying hens, deeper brown, typically.

F3 can be either F2 breedbacks of your olive egger hens back to the dark brown rooster ---or----take your very best F1 and breed to F2. Many prefer taking the best F3 and breeding to best of F4. Your line should be set now.

At this point your first rooster may be aging, so pick a test rooster from F2 or F3 or F4, your best, and breed to a test hen to see results.

Always work with your best stock.

Keeping a dark brown rooster to breed over blue purebred hens and olive layer hens will continue to freshen the dark brown genes necessary for true olive.

Why? Because it takes about 13 genes to perfect brown. Each generation loses some of those genes, so to keep taking later generations for your breeding will quickly breed out the brown. Use a good "stud" rooster as your cornerstone and set at least 3 generations before you test an F3 or F4.

Blue is easy to keep in the line as it is dominant and requires only 1 blue gene for blue shell. It is also naturally easy to select for blue as you set only the blue or olive eggs which have been refreshed by a solid dark brown or olive egger rooster.

In time, you will find your olives lightening to green, and even light green to blue, and you may find imperfections beginning to creep in. At that point you need to refresh genetics in the flock. The easiest way is to purchase (or many will simply give away) a really good quality brown genetic rooster to refreshen those brown genes.

Remember brown is produced (by 13ish genes) by hemoglobin wash over white shell. Olive is produced by hemoglobin wash over blue shell. It is easy to dilute brown in a line with each generation getting lighter and lighter brown unless careful selection and breed back is performed.

Blue is dominant, but there are 2 slots for blue. F1 olive eggers will have only 1 blue gene which means F2 will only produce 50% blue shell carriers. It's easy to select for those carrying blue by the egg color (blue, green, olive). Breeding back those to a brown rooster will produce again 50% blue carrying and 50% clears for blue (brown laying). Breeding your F1 blue shell layers back to a full blue gene rooster will produce 50% single blue gene and 50% double blue gene. Those will be middle olive (typically) which you can then breed back to a dark brown rooster to refreshen that pesky brown that wants to breed out.

Bottom line, start with an excellent dark brown rooster (advice given me by good olive egger breeders) and breed over excellent pure blood blue layers. Then line breed back best daughters for about 3 generations to deepen olive. At that point some fresh genes may be needed by F5...but many lines continue on. However at some point the brown drops out and you find your olive lightening.

My advice.

LofMc

This is exactly what I joined BYC for -to get excellent advice. Thank you so very much for taking the time to share your wisdom. I won’t say I understand all that, but I got enough to get me started right. lol

 

[Poultrybonkers]

Its best to do bc1s for darker olives