Pemethrin yard spray?

[Shaste]

The thatching ants are already getting out of hand this year to where I can't go into the yard in flip flops. They are also starting to go into our chicken run. They bite/sting horribly and steal the chickens' snacks and I'm sick of it. I was thinking of spraying permethrin around the yard but worried about the chickens eating the grass that has been sprayed.

Is that safe? Can I still eat the eggs if the chickens are eating sprayed grass? Any other ideas? I've tried diatomaceous earth with no benefit. We have been co-existing with them for 15+ years as we're surrounded by forest but I want to carve out a little space for myself!

 

[Shadrach]

The thatching ants are already getting out of hand this year to where I can't go into the yard in flip flops. They are also starting to go into our chicken run. They bite/sting horribly and steal the chickens' snacks and I'm sick of it. I was thinking of spraying permethrin around the yard but worried about the chickens eating the grass that has been sprayed.

Is that safe? Can I still eat the eggs if the chickens are eating sprayed grass? Any other ideas? I've tried diatomaceous earth with no benefit. We have been co-existing with them for 15+ years as we're surrounded by forest but I want to carve out a little space for myself!

You should most definitely not spray your yard with permethrin.
Wear boots/shoes if you're keeping livestock.

 

[Shaste]

You should most definitely not spray your yard with permethrin.
Wear boots/shoes if you're keeping livestock.

Is it not safe for the chickens to eat sprayed grass? Is there a half life for this stuff? I do wear boots to the barn and in the pastures out of deference to sharing the land (we have horses too) but I'm over getting bitten just for walking through my yard.

I thought permethrin would be a safe option as I know people use it for parasite infestations.

 

[Shadrach]

Is it not safe for the chickens to eat sprayed grass? Is there a half life for this stuff? I do wear boots to the barn and in the pastures out of deference to sharing the land (we have horses too) but I'm over getting bitten just for walking through my yard.

I thought permethrin would be a safe option as I know people use it for parasite infestations.

It's safe enough on chickens and on people. Most head lice treatments are permethrin based for example. What one doesn't want is it leaching into the soil because it's toxic to most water creatures and some others.

 

[Shaste]

Thanks, that's good to know. We live near a seasonal wetland and I'm hyper vigilant about what gets into the water table so I'll double check safe application around water.

 

[EddieSalita]

Permethrin is very highly toxic to fish. Very very. Also to cats.

Wholesale killing insect life in your whole yard isn't the ideal option. You're going to kill a multitude of things the chickens like to eat. No to mention all kinds of potentially good bugs.
A borax based bait station may be enough to systemically eradicate the entire nest without so much collateral damage.
Permethrin isn't systemic. It's a short term solution on a whole yard scale. You're just going to knock down the numbers. Not kill the nest.

There are other poisons that are highly systemically effective on ants. Just make sure they are poultry safe. Hence the borax suggestion. A trap type that the chooks can't get at will kill the whole nest in a more natural way.

 

[NapaChicknGal]

The thatching ants are already getting out of hand this year to where I can't go into the yard in flip flops. They are also starting to go into our chicken run. They bite/sting horribly and steal the chickens' snacks and I'm sick of it. I was thinking of spraying permethrin around the yard but worried about the chickens eating the grass that has been sprayed.

Is that safe? Can I still eat the eggs if the chickens are eating sprayed grass? Any other ideas? I've tried diatomaceous earth with no benefit. We have been co-existing with them for 15+ years as we're surrounded by forest but I want to carve out a little space for myself!

what about Terro? It's supposed to be non-toxic - I use it in the house - kind of sugary, you'd probably have to put a cover or frame of some kind to keep birds from pecking at it. Google it - wow, and I thought my problem with bluejays was bad. Yu shdn't wear flipflops with all that poop anyway, a little bit can leach into your skin and then yu get infections - be safe

 

[Shaste]

Thanks, I'll look into Terro for future use. We only have 3 chickens and a 1 acre yard, and they only get free range an hour or so a day so the poop is pretty minimal.

The ants' bite is pretty awful but I was also concerned about them going after the chickens as they seemed to be swarming in the run. As a short term fix I sprinkled some permethrin powder (sold for direct application to chickens) around the perimeter of the run and the ants seem to have moved on to an easier target.

I was never intending to spray the whole yard, just the area where they were swarming. I appreciate biodiversity but a girl's got to protect herself and her chickens

 

[jeffnolan]

I use Bifen IT. This is a broad-spectrum insecticide, Bifenthrin. I am on a farm in South Florida, a hot spot for a wide range of insects. Most are benign, but some are very challenging. In some areas, I load up my 65-gallon sprayer with a 30' boom and go at it, but around the livestock (cattle, chickens, turkeys, goats, honeybees), we try to spot spray. Bifenthrin is safe around pets and livestock, provided you let it dry first. We move our chicken tractors when applying any insecticides or herbicides. Bifenthrin is not water-soluble; it is not harmful to animals when it dries.

Ants, however, are a special class of pest. I have waged war against fire ants for many years. Using conventional weapons would take years and cost billions of dollars. Most insecticides do little to dent the population of ants because to do so requires dealing with the queen in the colony. Baits are a better solution but do not use baits around livestock... identify where the colony is and bait around that location. If I were to go out and find fire ant mounds, I would be at it for days and have identified thousands of them. They are everywhere. I'm bringing in Guinea Fowl to attempt to deal with the fire ants... but I'll still apply Bifen IT selectively.

Leeching into a water table will not be an issue for residential applications. You would need to apply a serious amount of the chemical over a prolonged period of time for this to happen. Remember that these chemicals break down with sunlight (photolysis), moisture, microbial activity, and soil chemistry (pH). We are located on a major waterway, and we manage eutrophication by building buffer zones for drainage canals and limiting spraying and fertilizing during rainy periods. We test for nitrogen runoff (Florida is getting strict on this) and rate pretty well.

 

[Shaste]

Thanks! That's extremely helpful. If Guinea fowl will eat fire ants I bet they'll eat these buggers. We just met a neighbor yesterday who has a Guinea hen, gosh they're loud! It reminded me of a donkey