Permethrin Use on pigeons

[Quacking Pigeon]

Hi, I’m just wondering if it’s safe to use permethrin on pigeons and how much to the amount of water to spray them with. Has anyone got any experience with it?

 

[CCUK]

Hi. I'm not sure about permethrin use on pigeons but you can use ivermectin. I'm not sure which would be best? This is the dosage for ivermectin.

 

[biophiliac]

I believe that Permethrin is also recommended for external parasites in pigeons. I have not yet used it but would not hesitate to do so.

here is an excerpt ... quoting from site linked below.

Lice live off feather debris and so the avermectins have limited effectiveness against them. When lice are a problem, it is necessary to spray or dip the birds. As lice live always on the bird, treating all birds simultaneously will rid the loft of these. Whatever you do, do not use any of the older preparations such as Malawash. These are based on organophosphates. Organophosphates have a very narrow safety margin in birds and accumulate in their system to their detriment. Having a fancier ring the clinic in a panic after using Malawash or a similar product, with birds dead or dying, happens all too commonly. Organophosphates are absorbed through the skin and as long as the birds remain wet continued absorption will occur. Often fanciers have been lucky and have earlier dipped on a warm day and have had the birds dry quickly. Dipping on a cooler day means the birds stay wet for longer and absorb more of the poison. This prolonged skin absorption coupled with a narrow safety margin tips the birds into a toxic dose range. If a drug company attempted to register an organophosphate for use in birds these days they would have no chance. The few such products that are on the market are therapeutic dinosaurs. Birds with organophosphate poisoning lose muscle control, start to salivate and vomit, develop diarrhoea, become unconscious and die. If overdose occurs, it is important to prevent further absorption by physically washing the birds. If the birds don’t start to improve immediately, your veterinarian has an antidote injection. Birds regularly washed in organophosphates gradually accumulate the poison in their system. The drug, although quickly absorbed, is only slowly released and tends to be stored in the body, particularly in the body fat and bones. From here, it is gradually released, interfering with a number of metabolic processes. This is particularly so in hens, in which reproduction is affected, leading to abnormal ovulation and abnormal egg shell formation.

These days use a synthetic pyrethroid such as Permethrin. These are very safe yet just as effective as organophosphates, prevent reinfection for up to four months and do not take the bloom off the feathers. To spray the birds, dilute (usually 10 –20 ml per litre ) into a handheld pump bottle and spray the birds liberally. To dip the birds, pick a warm day, fill a bucket with warm water, add Permethrin at the rate of 10 –20 ml per litre together with a wetting agent (e.g. some children’s baby shampoo or a few shavings off a cake of pure soap such as “Velvet”) and away you go. If done correctly, the vane of the feathers will collapse back to their quills, exposing pink lines of skin. The birds look like drowned rats but after spreading in the sun and a bit of preening look normal in about 1 – 2 hours.

Obviously there is no single way of effectively clearing the birds of parasites, but the system preferred by me is:
Moxidectin, 2 mg/ml, 5 ml per litre for 24 hours
Dip birds in Permethrin
Thorough clean of loft and spray loft with Permethrin
In tapeworm areas or if tapeworm segments are seen in droppings, Prazivet, 0.25 ml to each bird.

it is from this site...
http://www.homingpigeon.com/article/Parasite_Control.html

Hope this helps

 

[casportpony]

Lice llive off feather debris and so the avermectins have limited effectiveness against them.

I have found oral ivermectin to be 100% effective against all poultry lice.

 

[casportpony]

Hi, I’m just wondering if it’s safe to use permethrin on pigeons and how much to the amount of water to spray them with. Has anyone got any experience with it?

It is safe. As for an amount, I would say to use 1/5th the amount listed for poultry since the I think the average pigeon wighs about 1 pound and the average laying hen weighs about 5 pounds.

 

[Kiki]

This spray comes already mixed and it is labeled for some birds.

Martin's PERMETHRIN spray

• Kiki
• Mar 22, 2018
• 6
• flies lice mites permethrin

 

[biophiliac]

I have found oral ivermectin to be 100% effective against all poultry lice.

I would agree with you on effectiveness however the potential for toxicity discussed following that statement is what concerns me. Apparently organo-phosphate poisoning tho rare, is a thing.
...this is a cow, but still?
http://familycow.proboards.com/thread/6961

Post by mountainmom on Jun 12, 2007 at 2:02am
I know its been a while since Ive posted its our busy season, but wanted to warn everyone. We treated Mignon (Molly's Heifer calf) with Ivermectin pour on, as we have done for other cattle hundreds of times in the past. We treated her on a Thursday and on Saturday, Mignon stopped eating, Monday she was barely able to walk, and would only walk with her head down and very stiff hind quarters and wanted to hide in the trees. Monday was Memorial day and no vet anywhere would respond to me, my vet had the stomach flu and couldn't get out of bed. So we waited until Tuesday and by then she was just about down, she couldn't barely stand she was almost wheezing and it took us using a rope to haul her up into the trailer to get her to the vet. The vet said it was Organophosphate Toxicity from the Ivermec, she said it is rare that it happens but it still does. I guess Mignon is allergic or very sensitive to it. So anyway after a very long evening and into the night at the vet with Mignon on an IV, and some vitamins given back to her she was a little better. The vet said the poisoning wont usually kill them, its the fact that they wont drink and the dehydration gets them. So the next day Wednesday Mignon was still suffering still very unstable, and head down and stiff hind end. But she decided she would eat a little bit of grass and have some of Maggie's grain, which was a good thing since she hadn't eaten in almost a week. Anyway took a while to bring her out of it but she is recovering nicely now, she has lost 70lbs.
Just be on the look out for symptoms after treating if you all use Ivermectin. The quicker you catch it the better chance they have of beating it, the vet said Charcoal could have been given right away and she would have gotten over it quicker. Thank God she made it! Of course we are no longer able to eat her after nursing her through this, so we traded her to some Friends who have a ranch and she will get to be a momma!! My kids are so relieved, I am too.

Of course she can no longer have Ivermectin!!

edit, could there be a difference in the oral vs pour on in toxicity?

 

[casportpony]

I would agree with you on effectiveness however the potential for toxicity discussed following that statement is what concerns me. Apparently organo-phosphate poisoning tho rare, is a thing.
...this is a cow, but still?
http://familycow.proboards.com/thread/6961

Post by mountainmom on Jun 12, 2007 at 2:02am
I know its been a while since Ive posted its our busy season, but wanted to warn everyone. We treated Mignon (Molly's Heifer calf) with Ivermectin pour on, as we have done for other cattle hundreds of times in the past. We treated her on a Thursday and on Saturday, Mignon stopped eating, Monday she was barely able to walk, and would only walk with her head down and very stiff hind quarters and wanted to hide in the trees. Monday was Memorial day and no vet anywhere would respond to me, my vet had the stomach flu and couldn't get out of bed. So we waited until Tuesday and by then she was just about down, she couldn't barely stand she was almost wheezing and it took us using a rope to haul her up into the trailer to get her to the vet. The vet said it was Organophosphate Toxicity from the Ivermec, she said it is rare that it happens but it still does. I guess Mignon is allergic or very sensitive to it. So anyway after a very long evening and into the night at the vet with Mignon on an IV, and some vitamins given back to her she was a little better. The vet said the poisoning wont usually kill them, its the fact that they wont drink and the dehydration gets them. So the next day Wednesday Mignon was still suffering still very unstable, and head down and stiff hind end. But she decided she would eat a little bit of grass and have some of Maggie's grain, which was a good thing since she hadn't eaten in almost a week. Anyway took a while to bring her out of it but she is recovering nicely now, she has lost 70lbs.
Just be on the look out for symptoms after treating if you all use Ivermectin. The quicker you catch it the better chance they have of beating it, the vet said Charcoal could have been given right away and she would have gotten over it quicker. Thank God she made it! Of course we are no longer able to eat her after nursing her through this, so we traded her to some Friends who have a ranch and she will get to be a momma!! My kids are so relieved, I am too.

Of course she can no longer have Ivermectin!!

edit, could there be a difference in the oral vs pour on in toxicity?

I could be wrong, but I don't think ivermectin is an organophosphate. Carbaryl (Sevin) and malathion are though I think?

 

[biophiliac]

I could be wrong, but I don't think ivermectin is an organophosphate. Carbaryl (Sevin) and malathion are though I think?

I think you are right about it not being an organo phosphate. I do see neuro toxicity listed as a possible side effect and a caution the dose must be very accurately determined.

 

[biophiliac]

I'm not against Ivermectin at all, my dog Tucker gets it as a heart worm preventative!
I just like to know as much as I can.