Sanity check breeding & coops/pens

[Kimi BK]

We are new to breeding, and new to owning roos, but have had chickens for a dozen years.

We now have 12 cockerels (Australorp, Wyandotte, and Welsummer) and 12 pullets (same, plus Easter Egger), all 16 weeks old. The pullets are in a 7'x16' pen with an enclosed upper portion ~7'x7', plenty of roosts, and plenty of next boxes. They have a 40'x40' yard protected by electric fencing and are only closed into the pen at night. This first pic is the coop & pen we currently use for our 12 pullets -- we had 24 juveniles in here until ~12 weeks when we separated out our cockerels.

Right now the cockerels are housed in a 20'x30' hoop house over our summer garden area. They have a table with 2 separate dog houses holding their roosts. The hoop house is screened in, and surrounded by electric fence. This is a temporary home. We will be harvesting them down to 3 roosters (one of each breed) which we can start at any time (honestly we are dragging our feet for that first kill and so far they seem happy so we haven't been pushed into culling...).

Here are our goals as we inch toward breeding:

• produce unfertilized eggs for eating & selling
• raise chicklets to get more layers and dinner roos (we'd be eating roos, but not selling meat)
• we are happy to eat any kind of roo
• we want our laying hens to be true breeds, or Easter-Egger / Welsummer mutts to possibly end up with a few olive eggers

Here is our current guess of what we need for housing:

• laying pen -- coop / pen / run for all our bachlorette production layers
• small roo pad for 3 stud roos (like ~4x8 pen with ~3x4 roost box and access to yard, or larger pen that they stay in)
• brood coop -- we'd plan to breed one breed at a time. We'd use those eggs for our own eating until we're pretty sure they're all fertile, then collect eggs until we have as many as we want to hatch, then eat them again until we're pretty sure they're non-fertile, then put the hens back into the laying pen, and use the brood coop to grow out the chicks once they are ready for the outdoors. (If we have a broody we'd try to let her raise the chicks.)
• when the new generation grows up we'd move the pullets in with the layers and harvest the roos
• eventually we hope we'll have enough layers and strong enough market to require a bigger layer coop than we currently have, so our current coop could end up being the brood coop. But we don't want to go and build a huge layer coop yet until we feel like this is a viable plan. So maybe our first house-raised chicks would go into a temporary hoop-house improvised coop or something like our current roos have done.
• we have a 4-season greenhouse where we could keep babies for the first 6 weeks if/when needed (we got our current crew of day-old chicks mid-October)

Here are our questions after poking around on this forum:

• does our plan above seem viable?
• it seems like most threads I've found about breeding have roosters staying with hens -- do most folks on here want fertilized eggs for eating, or not care either way and just want the benefits of a roo cohabitating?
• Do most of you who breed raise a lot more chicks than you need for eating & replacing layers? Are folks breeding to sell chicks / pullets?
• if we do the above, should we have the roo yard and hen yard adjacent (for predator warning etc)? Or would it be better to visually separate (so they don't drive each other crazy)? Right now our roos are housed visually separate from the hens, but they can hear each other. I do see the hens freeze sometimes when the roos call, and sometimes it seems like a roo's call causes the girls to scurry inside (unless it's just my imagination).
• if we try the above (separate brood pen with one breed at a time), would we only do one breeding per year? or would we have time for more than one? If we're raising the new generation in the brood coop, they'd probably need it for 4-5 months. I just don't know how seasonal breeding is, or if it is at all.
• Do you try to track which hens each egg came out of? It would seem to make sense, at least if planning on keeping one of the roos for future mating...?
• is there any sort of "breeding 101" thread I missed in my search?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Egg Snatcher]

Sounds good!

 

[aart]

That's a lot of questions.

• does our plan above seem viable?

Sounds pretty good. Many variables tho.

• it seems like most threads I've found about breeding have roosters staying with hens -- do most folks on here want fertilized eggs for eating, or not care either way and just want the benefits of a roo cohabitating?

Most aren't focused on controlled breeding specifics...and don't have space to separate breeds

• Do most of you who breed raise a lot more chicks than you need for eating & replacing layers? Are folks breeding to sell chicks / pullets?

Some sell, some just raise replacement layers. I've done both.

• if we do the above, should we have the roo yard and hen yard adjacent (for predator warning etc)? Or would it be better to visually separate (so they don't drive each other crazy)? Right now our roos are housed visually separate from the hens, but they can hear each other. I do see the hens freeze sometimes when the roos call, and sometimes it seems like a roo's call causes the girls to scurry inside (unless it's just my imagination).

Hard to tell, might have to play it ear/eye/behaviors observed.

• if we try the above (separate brood pen with one breed at a time), would we only do one breeding per year? or would we have time for more than one? If we're raising the new generation in the brood coop, they'd probably need it for 4-5 months. I just don't know how seasonal breeding is, or if it is at all.

Depends on if you sell day old chicks or started pullets.
I integrate chicks young. They are banded right out of the incubator for IDing.
The more birds you keep to grow up out the more space you're going to need,
and that may dictate how many batches of chicks you hatch each year.

• Do you try to track which hens each egg came out of? It would seem to make sense, at least if planning on keeping one of the roos for future mating...?

Depends on how detailed you want to get on your breeding.

Would be good if you hatched a batch of chicks, start researching the market, assess your housing as you move thru the process, then increase/adjust how to move forward.

 

[Mrs. K]

When you are breeding, you really do not want to raise up offspring from less than stellar birds. You really should only breed the best confirmation birds. So out of your three (I am assuming of each breed) it would be best to pick the top hen. You really need to take measurable data about each hen, each rooster. Then consider the traits you want. Number of eggs being produced, size of eggs - weigh them each day. Weight of each bird, several times during their growth to maturity.

You want to examine each bird carefully for conformity to SOP and general symmetry. Then when you get those top two birds, separate the hen for 3 weeks to clear her system, and add in the top rooster. Eat her eggs until you see good fertilization rate, then collect her eggs for 10 days, and set that clutch.

You can repeat this process as much as you want if you have an incubator, and of course you can hatch mutliple breeds at the same time, I just think that you want eggs less than 2 weeks old to hatch.

Most breeders raise a lot of birds to cull hard. Keeping only a very few birds for breeding. Most of their pullets would also be culled.

Eating fertilized or unfertilized is a moot issue, it takes a pretty keen eye and practice to tell the difference.

With roosters - I have come to the conclusion there is no perfect plan for roosters. It will work until it doesn't. Have a plan B for all roosters, it should be set up and ready to go. The don't call it cock fighting for nothing.

However, I myself, do differentiate on breeds and eating of roosters. I prefer meat birds for most of my chicken meals. I only would use excess layer roosters for soups or casseroles.

I am going to just suggest another idea. If you like it good, if not, no big deal. Instead of breeding 3 different breeds each year, which is going to quickly become a nightmare of where to put who and when... why not breed a single breed each year. Say you add a Austrlope rooster to your flock, as a flock rooster. Just hatch the eggs from the Austrolope girls. Eat the rest of the eggs.

Next year, add a new rooster, different breed, hatch out those, eat the rest. They can all stay together if you can identify the different kinds of eggs. Repeat the third year. By then the austrolope hens numbers will be thinning, and laying less eggs, and then refresh them.

A whole lot less pens will be needed.

MRs K

 

[Kimi BK]

I integrate chicks young. They are banded right out of the incubator for IDing.
The more birds you keep to grow up out the more space you're going to need,
and that may dictate how many batches of chicks you hatch each year.
...
Would be good if you hatched a batch of chicks, start researching the market, assess your housing as you move thru the process, then increase/adjust how to move forward.

Thanks for your thoughts!

That makes sense. So then we wouldn't need to keep the chicks very long in the breeding pen, and could start another "batch."

Yeah, I agree with your thoughts on going ahead and trying it out, learning as we go -- totally our style! Maybe this year we'll try hatching a batch and taking it from there...

 

[Kimi BK]

When you are breeding, you really do not want to raise up offspring from less than stellar birds. You really should only breed the best confirmation birds. So out of your three (I am assuming of each breed) it would be best to pick the top hen. You really need to take measurable data about each hen, each rooster. Then consider the traits you want. Number of eggs being produced, size of eggs - weigh them each day. Weight of each bird, several times during their growth to maturity.

You want to examine each bird carefully for conformity to SOP and general symmetry. Then when you get those top two birds, separate the hen for 3 weeks to clear her system, and add in the top rooster. Eat her eggs until you see good fertilization rate, then collect her eggs for 10 days, and set that clutch.

You can repeat this process as much as you want if you have an incubator, and of course you can hatch mutliple breeds at the same time, I just think that you want eggs less than 2 weeks old to hatch.

Most breeders raise a lot of birds to cull hard. Keeping only a very few birds for breeding. Most of their pullets would also be culled.

Eating fertilized or unfertilized is a moot issue, it takes a pretty keen eye and practice to tell the difference.

With roosters - I have come to the conclusion there is no perfect plan for roosters. It will work until it doesn't. Have a plan B for all roosters, it should be set up and ready to go. The don't call it cock fighting for nothing.

However, I myself, do differentiate on breeds and eating of roosters. I prefer meat birds for most of my chicken meals. I only would use excess layer roosters for soups or casseroles.

I am going to just suggest another idea. If you like it good, if not, no big deal. Instead of breeding 3 different breeds each year, which is going to quickly become a nightmare of where to put who and when... why not breed a single breed each year. Say you add a Austrlope rooster to your flock, as a flock rooster. Just hatch the eggs from the Austrolope girls. Eat the rest of the eggs.

Next year, add a new rooster, different breed, hatch out those, eat the rest. They can all stay together if you can identify the different kinds of eggs. Repeat the third year. By then the austrolope hens numbers will be thinning, and laying less eggs, and then refresh them.

A whole lot less pens will be needed.

MRs K

Thank you for your thoughts! Lots of good detailed info to think about! We'll be eating our first dual-purpose bird soon, with 11 more to follow, so we'll have a good chance to see if we like their meat enough to keep up the practice! We just got our "plan B" (cone) set up today... I think our big biting roost-hogging Australorp will be first...

We'll use this year as a learning year, maybe raising up one second-generation batch while getting to know our birds and their habits, productivity, etc. while learning what it takes to incubate and hatch, and whether we can even figure out how to do that in our high-desert world...

Then maybe by next year we'll have a well-honed eye, an idea of our market, and the experience chops to jump in to a "breeding program" using some of these thoughtful ideas. Thanks again!

 

[cmom]

I don't know if I can be of any help. I breed for exhibition/showing. Different people do it different ways. I have several coops and pens that have been built over many years. I hatch out usually at least a couple of hundred chicks each year realizing that around half will be males. I have some coops I call my general population coops and pens. I do keep my spare males in these coops and pens. I usually have a main male and a backup in case something should happen to one. These are where I keep my birds for eggs to sell for eating. There are so many females that some of the eggs may be fertile but many aren't in the general population. The males can't service all of the females and often times have favorites. I have some coops and pens I use for breeding. I only breed and hatch in the spring. I set up my breeding coops and pens about a month before I collect the eggs for hatching. I selective breed so I only breed my best birds. All of my breeds are pure (heritage). I do sell eggs for hatching too. I grow out all of my chicks and when they are around 5/6 months old I sell the extra males that I'm not going to use as breeders. at around 4 moths old. I use some of the breeding coops as bachelor coops until I take the birds to sell. Years ago we did process them but we are old folks so now if I want a chicken to eat, we have a butcher down the road and I get one from him. I can get more by selling the live birds which helps to offset the cost of the feed. I go through at least a half ton of feed monthly. I have electric wires around my coops and pens, concrete under the gates and good heavy duty netting that covers all of the pens, all due to losses from predators in the past. Here is my setup. Good luck and have fun...
Some of my RIR's too. My hen was a champion at a show. She is waiting to get her picture taken on champion row.

 

[cmom]

This is where I sell my eggs for eating.

 

[Cattle dog Mom]

Thank you for your thoughts! Lots of good detailed info to think about! We'll be eating our first dual-purpose bird soon, with 11 more to follow, so we'll have a good chance to see if we like their meat enough to keep up the practice! We just got our "plan B" (cone) set up today... I think our big biting roost-hogging Australorp will be first...

We'll use this year as a learning year, maybe raising up one second-generation batch while getting to know our birds and their habits, productivity, etc. while learning what it takes to incubate and hatch, and whether we can even figure out how to do that in our high-desert world...

Then maybe by next year we'll have a well-honed eye, an idea of our market, and the experience chops to jump in to a "breeding program" using some of these thoughtful ideas. Thanks again!

This sounds like a great idea to me! Just stick a foot in the water at first rather than jumping in head first right off the bat.

 

[Kimi BK]

I don't know if I can be of any help. I breed for exhibition/showing. Different people do it different ways. I have several coops and pens that have been built over many years. I hatch out usually at least a couple of hundred chicks each year realizing that around half will be males. I have some coops I call my general population coops and pens. I do keep my spare males in these coops and pens. I usually have a main male and a backup in case something should happen to one. These are where I keep my birds for eggs to sell for eating. There are so many females that some of the eggs may be fertile but many aren't in the general population. The males can't service all of the females and often times have favorites. I have some coops and pens I use for breeding. I only breed and hatch in the spring. I set up my breeding coops and pens about a month before I collect the eggs for hatching. I selective breed so I only breed my best birds. All of my breeds are pure (heritage). I do sell eggs for hatching too. I grow out all of my chicks and when they are around 5/6 months old I sell the extra males that I'm not going to use as breeders. at around 4 moths old. I use some of the breeding coops as bachelor coops until I take the birds to sell. Years ago we did process them but we are old folks so now if I want a chicken to eat, we have a butcher down the road and I get one from him. I can get more by selling the live birds which helps to offset the cost of the feed. I go through at least a half ton of feed monthly. I have electric wires around my coops and pens, concrete under the gates and good heavy duty netting that covers all of the pens, all due to losses from predators in the past. Here is my setup. Good luck and have fun...
Some of my RIR's too. My hen was a champion at a show. She is waiting to get her picture taken on champion row.

Wow, that is an impressive operation! Lot's of good information too. Thank you for this!