Sudden death, and saving the others

[FirstTimeClucky]

I had three Silkies, one was older than the other two at 11 weeks, the other two are about 8-9 weeks old now.

Last night I noticed the oldest one seemed listless compared to the others. He was fine all day. I pick them all up and look them over every day and he seemed fine a few hours earlier. It was late at night when I last checked them, so I thought he was just sleepy.

This morning I noticed he hadn't moved from his spot last night. I picked him up and right away noticed he didn't try to struggle. His head was up and he was alert, but not moving his wings or body. He didn't feel hotter than usual. I didn't want to touch the other two to compare. There was no discharge from the eyes, nostrils or beak, but he had some stuck on diarrhea on his vent. I couldn't tell the colour, it seemed more like clear liquid. I decided to make a quarantine box for him with paper towel so I could have a better look at his poop.

I went and got the box ready, it took about 5 minutes. When I went to their pen to put him in the box, he was already dead. It appeared he had had a seizure. He was flipped over on his back, with his head twisted backwards underneath his body and his feet in the air. His whole body (spine) was twisted to one side. He had already begun to stiffen.

My big concern is preventing the other two from getting sick, if possible. Right now they're behaving normally and are active. They are in a wire pen with wood shavings for bedding. They were all in the same pen for about a month. I do have another pen I can prepare to move them to, in fact I was already planning on moving them today. But I want to know the best way to disinfect the old and new pens. These pens are indoors. I was thinking of bleach and water, but if anyone has better ideas I'd appreciate the advice. I also want to disinfect their food and water dispensers. I plan to run those through the dishwasher.

Is there anything I could treat the remaining birds with, to help prevent them from getting sick as well? I was thinking of a probiotic. I have some organic apple cider vinegar. I also have plain yogourt. Any ideas?

 

[SunHwaKwon]

Bump

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Can you posts some photos of the poop, the chicks and your housing?
What type of food/treats are you feeding?
Can you take a fresh poop sample to your vet for testing?

The twisting of the head and body, sounds neurological - it could be vitamin E deficiency, head injury or disease like Marek's, Avian Lymphoid Leukosis or Newcastle.

Offer some poultry vitamins like Poultry Nutri-Drench that contains vitamin E. You can also give a little chopped egg for selenium and crush a human B-Complex vitamin to add to their feed daily.

Coccidiosis could also be something to keep in mind. Symptoms include lethargy, loss of balance, having a fluffed up appearance and loose stools with mucous or blood.

If they are in an indoor area with poor ventilation - using bleach would be a bit harsh on the respiratory system. Do they have access to outdoors at all?

 

[FirstTimeClucky]

Can you posts some photos of the poop, the chicks and your housing?

I already disposed of the dead chick's body. The poop itself wasn't visible anyway, the vent area just looked like clumped, wet feathers with no solids stuck to them. The other two chicks are clean and dry around the vent. I checked their (old) pen and did find a bit of blackish stuff near where the chick was when it died. I will try to take a picture of it, since I haven't taken that pen down yet.

I was keeping them in a small wire pen while they were young. I had just built them a bigger pen. I haven't given them access to the outdoors yet. I build the pens from CC cubes, which are enamel coated wire squares used to build cube storage shelving. I use a heavy tarp under the pen and kiln-dried non-aromatic wood shavings as bedding. At the moment I have the two surviving chicks in a cardboard box lined with paper towel, to monitor their poop and keep them in while I finish setting up the new pen. So far their poop appears relatively normal to me. I'll take pics and post them in a while.

What type of food/treats are you feeding?

I just ran out of chick starter crumbles so they're getting 18% layer pellets for now. They also get chopped greens, usually romaine lettuce. Sometimes I add shredded carrot or other greens like dandelion (farmed), celery greens, collards, bok choy. I usually add a supplement powder to the greens. Sometimes it's trace mineral powder, or calcium powder, or oyster shell grit (which they also get separately). Sometimes I add chopped roasted unsalted peanuts, or fish food flakes for protein. I keep button quail, and about twice a week I boil their eggs to chop and feed back to the birds, including shells. They also get some scratch (seed mix - red millet, cracked corn, sunflower seeds etc.) and a handful of dried mealworms each day. I give the same greens mix to my quails, as well as my diamond doves. They all seem to be doing well on it.

Can you take a fresh poop sample to your vet for testing?

I'm guessing you mean from one of the surviving chicks? I will have to check with my avian vet, but at least there's no shortage of samples available!

The twisting of the head and body, sounds neurological - it could be vitamin E deficiency, head injury or disease like Marek's, Avian Lymphoid Leukosis or Newcastle.

It's hard to say. The symptoms came on incredibly fast. It was literally two hours after I held the chick yesterday evening and he was active and seemed fine. Then I looked again before bedtime and he was sitting lethargically on the bottom of the pen with the other two at the far end, and dead less than 12 hours later. There was no sign of spasm or head twisting before death. I've watched birds and animals die before, and I know that often they will have a brief seizure just as they pass. This looked a lot more violent though, especially the fact that the chick was flipped right upside down and I couldn't see the head at first because it was tucked under the body. There was no sign of additional discharge from any body openings after the chick was dead. I checked the body over and found no abnormalities on the skin or feathers (wounds etc.) and no lumps.

I was reading through a list of chicken illnesses and it appears that there are a few that don't strike until the chick reaches a certain age. I wondered if that's why only the oldest chick got sick. It was a couple of weeks older than the others. Whatever killed it must have been pretty virulent, and because they've been together for a month now I'm concerned that in a couple more weeks I will have two more dead chicks on my hands. One thing I noticed about them when I first got them was that they seemed to me to be underweight. Their keel bones are fairly prominent. I don't know if this is a breed trait with Silkies? However, they've always been active and eager to eat. They always have food available to them, and I've seen them all eating it many times.

I can't see any way that he'd have injured his head. The pen does not have a roof. There were no roosting shelves to hit its head on, and the food and water dispensers are attached to the side of the pen, in the corners. Nothing was knocked over or out of place in the pen. I double checked and confirmed there was nowhere it could have gotten its head stuck.

Offer some poultry vitamins like Poultry Nutri-Drench that contains vitamin E. You can also give a little chopped egg for selenium and crush a human B-Complex vitamin to add to their feed daily.

I've often used a multivitamin bird supplement called Prime made by Hagen in the past. I will look into poultry vitamins, I've heard of a few, like Rooster Booster.

Coccidiosis could also be something to keep in mind. Symptoms include lethargy, loss of balance, having a fluffed up appearance and loose stools with mucous or blood.

I looked at a lot of diseases, many had similar symptoms to what I noticed but there was always some symptom that mine didn't have. If it hadn't died so quickly I might have had a better chance to see all of the symptoms. There was no difficulty breathing, and the chick didn't feel abnormally hot before it died. It was not fluffed up as far as I could tell. I didn't see it try to walk. It was sitting down, but not rolled over on its side as I once saw a near-death hen do. For all I know, it could have eaten something the others didn't that made it sick.

If they are in an indoor area with poor ventilation - using bleach would be a bit harsh on the respiratory system. Do they have access to outdoors at all?

They are in a room that I keep well ventilated because I know chickens make a smell and I don't want the fumes to accumulate. I also know that stuffy air is bad for them. I do clean their pen often as well. Their shavings don't smell like pine or any other wood oil. I keep one of those turbo fans running in the room (not pointed at the pen) to keep the air moving, and the window is open. The door is kept closed because I have cats. I wasn't planning to move them outside until they were fully grown. I was going to bring them out of the room in a box for a few hours while the bleach fumes dissipate. I've also thought of using vinegar as a disinfectant instead of bleach. I often use vinegar for cleaning around the house.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

What type of food/treats are you feeding?
I just ran out of chick starter crumbles so they're getting 18% layer pellets for now. They also get chopped greens, usually romaine lettuce. Sometimes I add shredded carrot or other greens like dandelion (farmed), celery greens, collards, bok choy. I usually add a supplement powder to the greens. Sometimes it's trace mineral powder, or calcium powder, or oyster shell grit (which they also get separately). Sometimes I add chopped roasted unsalted peanuts, or fish food flakes for protein. I keep button quail, and about twice a week I boil their eggs to chop and feed back to the birds, including shells. They also get some scratch (seed mix - red millet, cracked corn, sunflower seeds etc.) and a handful of dried mealworms each day. I give the same greens mix to my quails, as well as my diamond doves. They all seem to be doing well on it.

These chicks are 8-9wks old? If you can, get them back on Chick Starter as quickly as you can. Layer feed has way too much calcium for growing chicks. Supplemental calcium is only needed for actively laying hens, so the calcium powder and oyster shell needs to be taken out as well. Since they are in a brooder they do need poultry grit which is crushed granite so they can process their food properly. Treats are great to give chicks, but it's best to limit treats to no more than 5-10% of their daily intake - diluting their protein intake can cause some problems.

 

[FirstTimeClucky]

These chicks are 8-9wks old? If you can, get them back on Chick Starter as quickly as you can. Layer feed has way too much calcium for growing chicks. Supplemental calcium is only needed for actively laying hens, so the calcium powder and oyster shell needs to be taken out as well. Since they are in a brooder they do need poultry grit which is crushed granite so they can process their food properly. Treats are great to give chicks, but it's best to limit treats to no more than 5-10% of their daily intake - diluting their protein intake can cause some problems.

Re the feed, I also have gamebird crumble, would that make a better substitute for the chick starter? I've ordered the chick starter but it won't get here until Wednesday. I could also mix the layer feed with the gamebird crumble. If they need extra protein I have fish flakes and cichlid pellets which are also high protein. Or I could just give them boiled quail egg (no shells) more often.

I was adding the calcium only because my quail and my diamond dove hen are all laying eggs now. From now on I'll give the chicks their portion before adding the calcium. I will still give them some trace mineral powder in the greens, since it contains a variety of minerals and vitamins, as well as electrolytes. I only give them about 2 tablespoons of the chopped greens mixed with a tablespoon of scratch seeds.

I have some pigeon grit which doesn't contain oyster shell, so I've given them that instead.

Finally, I took some closeup pics of their poop from the paper towel in their box. They look suspiciously like they have worms. If so, I already have a broad spectrum wormer I can use, it's called Worm X. I originally bought it for my pigeons, but it's safe for all caged and domestic birds including poultry. Here's the product page from the site I buy it from: http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/AB10272.html

Here's the poop, the white "worms" were in every poop that I saw:

Finally, here they are in their new pen. Since it was a new pen, I just cleaned the tarp floor with vinegar and let it air out before putting them in. The water bottle etc. were run through the dishwasher. The dowel is an old parrot perch with notches in the ends that fit on the bars and prevent it from rolling. They like to roost on it. The box was a new one which they were in this morning. The old pen was identical except a lot smaller because I needed to use a heat lamp at first.

Here they are while they were in the box this morning:

 

[Wyorp Rock]

@casportpony ? Worms in poop? WormX - will it take care of most worms?

 

[FirstTimeClucky]

@casportpony ? Worms in poop? WormX - will it take care of most worms?

It's a broad spectrum wormer containing Oxfendazole and Praziquantel. It's supposed to be good for most domestic birds, everything from zebra finches to pigeons to chickens. I mainly use it for pigeons. I looked up the two active ingredients to make sure they won't harm chickens. They can be used on chickens older than 6 weeks. The dose is half a teaspoon in two thirds of a cup of drinking water, given for two days.

I thought it might be an idea to try worming because they all seem a bit thin with keel bones protruding. For underweight birds the manufacturer recommends to "treat with an antibiotic such as Amtyl (amoxicillan/Tylan), and Ronidazole together in the drinking water for 7 days after the 2 day treatment of Worm X. This should take care of any worm problems, bacteria problems and protozoa giardia, or canker. Then be sure and treat with a Probiotic such as Probiotic Plus for 2 or 3 days in the drinking water to replace the good bacteria in the gut. By doing these products you will have de-wormed the bird, took care of any bacterial or viral infection in the bird."

I don't have the antibiotics so I'd have to order them, and they wouldn't arrive for about a week. I have organic apple cider vinegar as a probiotic which I can put in their water (1 tbsp per gallon) after the worm treatment. So I will stick with the wormer for now, and see how they do. Right now they're acting fine, busy exploring their new pen, scratching, eating, drinking, and chirping at each other. I picked them up and checked them over, the vents are clean and dry and there's no sign of anything abnormal or any discharges anywhere.

It's odd that the bigger, older one died so fast. I've have thought that the younger ones would have the weaker immune systems. Maybe he just got into something that the others didn't.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Sounds like you have done some thorough research on your de-wormer.
Hopefully by taking care of the worms and getting them back on proper feed, you won't have any further problems.

Keep us posted

 

[rebrascora]

What you are seeing on the poop are pieces of feather shaft that have been preened off.... at least that's what I am seeing on the poop pictures you have posted.