The Lazy Christmas Hatch: no turn quail dry hatch trial

[Susan Skylark]

Back home, incubator still running steady, day 14 (I think!). Candled before lockdown, also water candled just to make sure (usually reserve for late, unpipped eggs). Of my first 6 eggs three were quitters, thankfully that percentage dropped from fifty to over twenty five percent (still lousy but better than half dead!). Total loss was 5 eggs today (all died day 5-7), 1 day 2 quitter and one random healthy day 9 cull. So far 6/22 early embryonic death loss (not counting healthy cull in total or egg count). We’ll see how hatching goes, all other eggs candling normal and movement when water candled. I spiked the humidity and we’re in lockdown, 16 eggs left, hatch day 15-20 potentially. So yes, turning is very important, not absolutely necessary but not doing it does have a very significant effect on hatch rates. Normal for me is 10 percent or less early embryonic death on unshipped eggs, 25 is definitely significant! It won’t destroy your hatch like wonky temp but totally has an effect on developing embryos. I’ll keep you posted!

 

[Susan Skylark]

2 pips this morning (day 15), one wrong end, made a wider hole and will watch closely. Another great reason to turn eggs!

 

[Susan Skylark]

Morning of day 16: half the eggs went in evening of day 0, incubator temp also seems to vary by 1.5 degrees F from side to side so hatching days may vary significantly between eggs (yet another great reason to turn eggs!). 6 pipped, one of which is backwards and still alive. Day 17 is average hatch day, this incubator tends to run day 16/17, I’ve had day 19/20 with a different (cold) unit. I’ve also had chicks go 60 hours between pip and hatch and quail pips can be ridiculously hard to see (a mere crack or flake of shell), so overall hatch seems to be progressing fine.

 

[Susan Skylark]

Evening day 16: 5/16 hatched, including backwards chick, no issues this far, half of remaining eggs pipped.

 

[Susan Skylark]

Hatch is over, not sure how to summarize this one, certainly interesting but also extremely weird! By end of day 17 (normal hatch day) we have 10 healthy, happy chicks (including one backwards) that needed no assistance and had no issues. We have one day 2 quitter (no big deal there), one live egg culled day 9 to check progress, we have 5 day 5-7 quitters (definitely significant!), then I have 6 eggs I have theories but no answers. They never pipped though the other eggs were going gang busters, they just sat there. I candled them and a couple looked a little off (visible fluid, not fully dark). I water candled them again (as I did all normal candling eggs day 14). I was very careful to make sure eggs had no cracks (visual and feeling for cracks) but everything was sound. The eggs did have a very large air cell so floated well but no movement: 5/6 were dead. I opened the dead ones to find day 12-14 dead embryos pretty well wrapped in the membranes with a bit of icky fluid around them. The last one went back into the incubator until the last chick was dry and fluffy and still no pip. I did open the egg to find a small, weak chick with an unabsorbed yolk sac, icky fluid and well wrapped in membranes, almost laminated! He expired pretty quickly and I doubt would have made it even if I gave him a couple days. So what is going on with this last batch of late embryonic death? My first thought was they had drowned when water candled on day 14, maybe there was something weird like microfractures in the shell through which water might pass but not detectable visually or by touch? A Large air cell leaves minimal space for growing chick putting stress on shell? I thought they were moving day 14, but I may also have rushed things a bit not wanting to leave them out of the incubator too long, maybe they didn’t quit moving from the placement into the water and I thought it was chick movement? Otherwise some aspect of not turning the eggs caused issues with the developing chicks, the weak, barely alive survivor was certainly odd, as is drowning a quarter of your eggs water candling! I can see one, maybe 2 but 5!? Maybe it was a cold corner of the incubator that slowed growth and they just ran out of gas? Why did two thirds do great and this bunch just fizzled out? I can’t definitely say what killed them, but I can certainly conclude not turning your Eggs will definitely affect hatch rate (down at least 25 percent, 50 if it was a direct cause of the late embryonic death too!). Also, water candling should only be used with caution in very specific circumstances (like eggs that haven’t pipped after all others have hatched, which is usually the only time I use it, but this was a weird hatch and I wanted to know if anything was even alive!), it most definitely should not be used late incubation on dry hatch eggs! A fifty percent hatch rate certainly is lousy on unshipped eggs, but sort of expected when breaking all the rules to see which ones actually matter. Strangely this was my only lousy hatch no matter what I’ve done to other batches! I’ll get a little article together summing up all these little experiments and what you actually can and can’t do when hatching eggs.

 

[Ridgerunner]

water candling should only be used with caution in very specific circumstances (like eggs that haven’t pipped after all others have hatched, which is usually the only time I use it, but this was a weird hatch and I wanted to know if anything was even alive!),

Yes, that's how I suggest using water candling. After the hatch is over and you are ready to toss your eggs but feel the need to make one last check. A desperation move.

I have no idea how water candling might have affected your hatch. It adds one more variable in addition to the no turning.

 

[HatchCraft]

2 pips this morning (day 15), one wrong end, made a wider hole and will watch closely. Another great reason to turn eggs!

Hatch is over, not sure how to summarize this one, certainly interesting but also extremely weird! By end of day 17 (normal hatch day) we have 10 healthy, happy chicks (including one backwards) that needed no assistance and had no issues. We have one day 2 quitter (no big deal there), one live egg culled day 9 to check progress, we have 5 day 5-7 quitters (definitely significant!), then I have 6 eggs I have theories but no answers. They never pipped though the other eggs were going gang busters, they just sat there. I candled them and a couple looked a little off (visible fluid, not fully dark). I water candled them again (as I did all normal candling eggs day 14). I was very careful to make sure eggs had no cracks (visual and feeling for cracks) but everything was sound. The eggs did have a very large air cell so floated well but no movement: 5/6 were dead. I opened the dead ones to find day 12-14 dead embryos pretty well wrapped in the membranes with a bit of icky fluid around them. The last one went back into the incubator until the last chick was dry and fluffy and still no pip. I did open the egg to find a small, weak chick with an unabsorbed yolk sac, icky fluid and well wrapped in membranes, almost laminated! He expired pretty quickly and I doubt would have made it even if I gave him a couple days. So what is going on with this last batch of late embryonic death? My first thought was they had drowned when water candled on day 14, maybe there was something weird like microfractures in the shell through which water might pass but not detectable visually or by touch? A Large air cell leaves minimal space for growing chick putting stress on shell? I thought they were moving day 14, but I may also have rushed things a bit not wanting to leave them out of the incubator too long, maybe they didn’t quit moving from the placement into the water and I thought it was chick movement? Otherwise some aspect of not turning the eggs caused issues with the developing chicks, the weak, barely alive survivor was certainly odd, as is drowning a quarter of your eggs water candling! I can see one, maybe 2 but 5!? Maybe it was a cold corner of the incubator that slowed growth and they just ran out of gas? Why did two thirds do great and this bunch just fizzled out? I can’t definitely say what killed them, but I can certainly conclude not turning your Eggs will definitely affect hatch rate (down at least 25 percent, 50 if it was a direct cause of the late embryonic death too!). Also, water candling should only be used with caution in very specific circumstances (like eggs that haven’t pipped after all others have hatched, which is usually the only time I use it, but this was a weird hatch and I wanted to know if anything was even alive!), it most definitely should not be used late incubation on dry hatch eggs! A fifty percent hatch rate certainly is lousy on unshipped eggs, but sort of expected when breaking all the rules to see which ones actually matter. Strangely this was my only lousy hatch no matter what I’ve done to other batches! I’ll get a little article together summing up all these little experiments and what you actually can and can’t do when hatching eggs.

Interesting results. Not familiar with water candling. My only suggestion would be incubate eggs in a vertical up right position if there is a next time.

 

[Susan Skylark]

After another couple winter hatches (eggs stay at 32F for 1-3 days preincubation either in pen or fridge); I’m starting to see a pattern: significant increase in late embryonic death. When I did my fridge egg experiment I didn’t take them to hatch; only day 9 or so. I saw no detrimental effect on development but my last 3 hatches have been in the 50-60% range when it has historically been 90% plus with no changes except the weather (and a No turn hatch). I also had a deformed chick in the group. The good news is I didn’t drown my eggs water candling; the bad news is if you plan on hatching eggs in cold weather, you probably want to collect them every 6 hours or so and don’t store them in the fridge. You can incubate cold exposed eggs but there appears to be a significant increase in late embryonic death or failure to hatch. I’d guess the cold somehow stresses out the egg and like shipping, trauma, and other stressors it weakens the resulting embryo and makes it more likely to suffer late embryonic death or it just isn’t strong enough to hatch. Not turning the eggs resulted in 25% early embryonic death while the cold seems to cause a similar number of late embryonic deaths. Crazy!