To Probiotic or not to Probiotic?

[MissMarple]

That is the question.

Have a flock of 18; 12 of which are 3-4 weeks old, 6 are almost a week old. They're in separate brooders until the tiny babies are bigger and can be safely introduced to the big girls. Both sets are on medicated starter. The more I read, the more confused I get. Some stuff I've read says yes to electrolytes but the vast majority of what I've read here says no electrolytes unless there's a need (sick/dehydrated) so I'm set on that. Vitamins? From what I've read here, their starter is sufficient. The big girls get outside and get a little sunshine, fresh air and forage a bit a few times a week. They love it, we love it; it's fun for all of us. The more I read about Cocci and intestinal health, the more I worry that I'm doing something wrong/not doing enough. Should the girls be on Probiotics? If so, any recommendations on brands? We're about to hang their waterer because every time I put it down on the floor, it is inevitably full of shavings shortly after and they have to have clean water. I've also read here and there about putting Apple Cider Vinegar in their water. I know the benefits in human gut health and have read there are benefits for them as well. But is it something that's needed all the time or only under certain circumstances? So many things to learn. I learn something new every single day. Oh, wise chicken sages, impart your wisdom, please!! Thanks in advance!!

 

[GC-Raptor]

I've never put Probiotics in the water, or ACV or Electrolytes.
I have two 40 month old Golden Comets and Six Barred Rocks that will be 1 year old Thursday.
The feed I buy has Prebiotics and Probiotics. Nutrena Naturewise and Purina Premium feeds. . . The thing I do add to chicks water for the first 10 days is Poultry Nutri-Drench following directions. . GC
ETA; Poultry Nutri-Drench is also good to treat a sick or injured chicken. But not if you're treating for Coccidiosis with Corid.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The confusion part is easy to explain. We all do things differently. Some people use all kinds of supplements and others pretty much use none. The chicks tend to do fine both ways. Whichever approach people take they think theirs is the best. They love their chicks so would only do what is best so whatever they do is best. If someone does it differently then they think their way is the best.

Some people supplement with vinegar, probiotics, electrolytes, garlic, DE, and who knows what else and who knows in what combinations. Some don't do any of this. In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) as long as you don't overdo these things you are not harming your chicks though I'd wonder about how some of these things might interact if you do a combination. Are any of them necessary for healthy chicks or chickens? The only supplement I give mine is dirt from the run so they get whatever probiotics the adults have to share and they can start building up their immune system against whatever might be in the environment they will be released into. I consider my chickens quite healthy and productive.

In an ideal world I'd suggest you try different things so you can compare and find out what works best for you. In the real world that's hard to do. We don't raise enough batches and don't have the set-ups where we can treat them that differently. It's just not practical. I don't know what to recommend for you. You seem to be the type that has to do something while I'm not going to let the pursuit of absolute perfection get in the way of plenty good enough. That's two different personalities. Maybe pick a couple of these and try them, see how they work for you. I'm not sure what effect vinegar might have on electrolytes or probiotics, but maybe ask if people that use either use them in combination. Try to learn the details of how people that use these things actually use them. And try to only listen to people that actually use them and have used them for a while, not someone that is going on what they read on the internet or that just started.

I wish you luck. This is the type of thing you can worry yourself sick over and, again just my opinion, it's not worth it unless you are treating for a specific thing. As long as you use moderation you are highly unlikely to hurt your birds with these things and they might actually do some good.

 

[Folly's place]

Ridgerunner has said it all very well, as usual.
I'm in the 'less is better' camp, so only add something if newly arrived chicks are under the weather. Otherwise, clean water and good fresh food.
Medicated chick starter if coccidia has been a problem in the past, or if new, it's a very good idea to prevent issues with coccidiosis. Treating actual illness is worse for this one.
There are now probiotics in several feeds at the feed store too.
Make sure that every bag of feed is within about four weeks of milling, by the date on the bag. Old feed isn't a good thing!
Some chicks will have problems that can't be fixed; not every hatchling is going to live every year, and that's not a failure on your part.
Mary

 

[Stockpilejoy]

I too would like to know. I started putting probiotics in my flocks water approx. 4 days a week several months back. I ordered it off of Amazon for 12.98 and it came with a small scooper [Recommends 1scoop per gallon of water]. My reasoning was I had a hen that had some pink dry areas around bottom..It looked similar to chafing so thought maybe is was a yeast/fungal issue. At that time I checked her over for bugs and didn't see any had recently sprayed their coop really good with Elector PSP. The probiotics seemed to have helped. Reading up on matter of adding probiotics I noticed some feel they aren't necessary but after reading one particular article it had me convinced it was good for overall chicken health and helps build up their immunity. I use Sav-a-chick in their water about once every week if the weather is extremely hot and more often if hens appear under the weather. Since I've been using the probiotics and vitamins more often than in recent years I've noticed my girls molt seems to be very subtle as compared to years in the past and they look much healthier overall. I recently read on here that plain water should also be offered when adding save-a-chick Vits to flock so I've been doing that lately.

 

[Northern Flights]

My feeling is that without effective controls/regulations on the manufacture and labeling of some of these supplements, the risk of doing harm and possibly inadvertently poisoning one's flock or livestock is too great for my liking. This risk only gets worse as more and more of these products are being sourced from shady and impossible to inspect producers in the PRC.

Personally, I only use products that are sourced from a vet or a trusted veterinary supplier and absolutely nothing made in China.

Remember the melamine dog (and cat) food poisoning that caught out so many brands, at least three times, if not more? That risk has only gotten greater as manufacturers chase ever shrinking returns in a headlong race to the bottom.

Not to mention the risk of causing resistance to later, much more urgently indicated treatments and medications due to the inclusion of misunerstood, mislabeled or simply omitted mystery ingredients.

But I will admit there are many decent quality products out there that are probably safe to use and actually are what they claim to be. But for me the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", most certainly applies.

(Later edited to include felines and that it happened more than once. Thank you CatWhisperer)

 

[Folly's place]

There was a report of problems a couple of years ago about probiotics used in HUMAN medicine; babies dying over some product or other, given to help them, and toxic. I remember reading about it and was horrified!
There are no actual controls is place over 'herbals' or 'natural' remedies, and Consumer Reports, for example, has a good article about them. It's ugly, and they were talking about products sold for human use.
Obviously, I'm not a fan. Knowing what's actually in the package, and what it might do, matters.
Sorry, rant over...
Mary

 

[Stockpilejoy]

There was a report of problems a couple of years ago about probiotics used in HUMAN medicine; babies dying over some product or other, given to help them, and toxic. I remember reading about it and was horrified!
Obviously, I'm not a fan.
Mary

Just found and read that article you mentioned...Very scary! After reading these views it has caused me to rethink giving it to my flock. Stopping probiotic use pronto.

 

[Northern Flights]

Consumer Reports is still a most trustworthy publication and having just read the article myself, I am moved to provide the link. Thanks for mentioning it Mary.

https://www.consumerreports.org/vitamins-supplements/supplements-can-make-you-sick/

 

[ironsightfarm]

I was new to chicks when I got mine in April and was beyond overwhelmed with all of the information out there (a lot of it conflicting!). I took the less is more approach as some of the others above and treated chick waterers with Nutridrench after shipping for a few days then switched to plain old water. I keep a separate waterer with electrolytes in the coop during the summer when the temps rise. I do used ACV, but have avoided it in the higher temps.

Using pre or probiotics was important to me for gut health, but with all the supplements on the market I found that using a feed that included both (added in a controlled environment) took the guesswork out for me.

Ask 10 people how they raise their chickens and you'll get 10 different answers What's important is that you ultimately choose to use what's best for your flock! Good luck!