Two questions about using predator urine to deter rodents

[EmmaDonovan]

1. If you buy predator urine online, how do you know that's really what you're getting? I imagine it's not easy to farm coyote or fox urine. How can you be sure the urine you buy is from a predator and not another animal (or a human - yuck)?

2. If it's legit predator urine, are chickens aware of it? Does it stress them out if you put it near their coop?

 

[cassie]

It is my understanding that birds do not rely much on a sense of smell.

 

[Brooks_]

1. If you buy predator urine online, how do you know that's really what you're getting? I imagine it's not easy to farm coyote or fox urine. How can you be sure the urine you buy is from a predator and not another animal (or a human - yuck)?

2. If it's legit predator urine, are chickens aware of it? Does it stress them out if you put it near their coop?

What's your goal with the pee? I understand wolves and fox are kept in captivity (no idea how they collect the pee).

Edit: right title. Don't think it would work for rodents. Raccoons and possums and such maybe.

 

[EmmaDonovan]

Pee goals... this is my life now.

Coyotes eat squirrels and other rodents, their urine is supposed to be a signal to move on because a predator is in the area.

 

[Ridgerunner]

1. If you buy predator urine online, how do you know that's really what you're getting? I imagine it's not easy to farm coyote or fox urine. How can you be sure the urine you buy is from a predator and not another animal (or a human - yuck)?

It has been a few years but I did an internet search on how they collect it. It probably is what it claims to be.

2. If it's legit predator urine, are chickens aware of it? Does it stress them out if you put it near their coop?

I've never used it near chickens but like Cassie I would not worry about it.

I used coyote urine once that I got at a country hardware store in my garden to try to get rid of a groundhog. It did not work, even when very fresh.

From what I've seen most wild critters quickly learn if something is a legitimate threat or not. I've tried different things around my garden to keep different critters out, critters like groundhogs, deer, and raccoons. While something may deter them for a short time, they often quickly learn it is not a real threat and ignore it. You can certainly try it and remember to keep it fresh. But don't be too surprised if it does not work as well as you hope. I'll be interested in reading your results.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Just another old wives tale spread until some enterprising person made it available commercially. I would imagine the market focuses on first time customers because there wouldn't be many repeat sales.

If you want to deal with a rodent infestation there is only one sure method.


You
stop
feeding
them.

Do this and the rodents have to leave to find the next buffet set out for them or disperse to establish territories that they have to defend and have a limited amount of natural foods available year around which severely limits their numbers. Not only that, foraging for natural food exposes them to predators.

Dispersal is tough, nearly all environments already have been split up into individual territories with a constant battle for control by each species that eats a particular kind of natural food. Newcomers will be driven off or killed. Nature has its ways of protecting itself by limiting the numbers of prey animals and predators but humans upset that balance by setting out rodent buffets without thinking.

Do a forum search for Howard E.'s posts or just rodents/rats/mice and chickens. You will see countless wild stories and claims debunked like the urine method. What does work is sanitation, getting your bulk feed in metal barrels, buying an actual ratproof chicken feeder which means the treadle HAS to be distant and narrow and the door HAS to be spring loaded to prevent the vermin from simply pushing the door open.

For this to work you need some adult birds to operate the treadle so they have the reach to get to the feed while holding down the distant and narrow treadle and to have enough weight to overcome the spring pre loading of the door. Even a poorly designed feeder like the Chinese made Grandpa feeder and its many clones also made in China will work IF put in use BEFORE you have a rodent infestation. They are more dangerous, not as waterproof, overly complicated which means more breakage and operating failures, and they have to be left open for weeks during training. Not good on that last one because it teaches the rodents where the feed is and the chickens that the lid isn't supposed to move when they step on the feeder.

You also HAVE to secure the feeder so there is zero wiggle when a heavy hen jumps upon the treadle, have a safe landing space in front so the bird can easily walk up and hold the treadle down with one foot while standing on the other foot, and you HAVE to remove ALL other food until some of the hens are hungry enough to use the new scary contraption that suddenly appeared in their world.

Small chicks and treadle feeders of all kinds are dangerous, as are the PVC elbow port feeders. You need some adult hens around a few silkies or bantams for this to work out. On the chicks and poults, you will probably be okay for the few months they are small IF you have done your sanitation correctly up until that point. A random rat or mouse might wander by but its numbers won't be able to explode that much until you have the poults using a treadle feeder.

You also HAVE to clean up the pathways the rodents use to get to and from their source of food so they run a gauntlet of natural predators from snakes to birds of prey to predators like foxes and coyotes.

This issue is a lot like politics, people search for the silver bullet that will solve all their problems rather than understanding they have a problem because they have been lazy, lax, or tuned out. The reality is that we cause our own problems usually and until we deal with the actual source of the problem we suffer. In this case it takes work and a $100 to $150 for a treadle feeder, another $20 to $30 for a metal drum with a lid or a galvanized trash can, and a few hours work each week cleaning up places where rodents can hide while moving around or burrow under.

 

[EmmaDonovan]

No food is stored outdoors, we keep it in the house. The coop feeders are removed at dusk and also brought indoors. Those are on concrete so it's easy to sweep up any spilled food.

The extant rodent populations established themselves long before we got here, when the house sat empty for a few years. There was no human food source for them and they thrived. They get their food from the desert. I think the appeal of our yard is it provides some protection from predators like coyotes. The fence is chain link so rodents come and go as they please.

 

[JPadronMiami]

good evening folks, in my area, we have to deal with Racoons, Opossums, Rats, snakes, feral dogs and cats, not to mention the constant threat of aerial predators, oh yes, lets not forget Iguanas,,,im constantly, mending, fixing, adding, reinforcing, replacing, cleaning and decluttering,,,,1 major thing I do not do any more is fill or top off the poultry feeders at night, the rats stopped coming around the chicken runs, we are keeping few cats near the stables now to deter rats from getting into the feed bins when the horses are eating their Omolene 200...I feel for you folks up north though you all have far worse to contend with