Updated and complete bumblefoot photos- is there still infection or not?

[CoffeeintheCoop]

I have 2 hens, "enjoying" their second birthday with our first (and God willing, our only) cases of bumblefoot. So I have photos of 4 feet. #1 and #2 come from Derby, an EE, very small light hen. #3 and #4 come from Jillaroo, a heavy large Black Australorp. They are featured in my profile picture together and of course, have their own special one-of-a- kind personalities. They were inseparable as chicks!

Questions:

Feet # 1 and 2 ... Are they mostly healed, or should I worry about the redness on the foot pad? Does her foot pad look swollen to you more experienced folks? Should I continue Epsom salt soaks? I continue medication and wrapping until there is absolutely no open sore, right?

This is Foot #3... It looks really swollen to me from above, between her toes. Those spots are softer to the touch after 2+ weeks of daily 15- minute Epsom salt soaks but they are not really diminishing in size. As I'm working on this post, I'm shocked to see that the photos I took of her wound are not on my phone! I will upload new images of that within 24 hours. Wednesday 10 pm Illinois USA time.

Foot #4 Same thing as #3. This foot is disfigured from hatching with her toes curled under. Her toes lay flat on the ground but I think they broke and reformed in a sideways- curled shape. She shows no sign of pain, and uses this foot to scratch and normally never limps. I do need to clip her nails! I am worried about how to help her over the long term with this handicap. For example she has a 6- inch wide board for roosting, rather than a 2x4... Anyway, this image is intended to show the swelling between two of her toes. Again, the image of her wound didn't get captured apparently, so it will be uploaded in 24 hours.

With several pictures missing, I'm not sure which foot this is, either #3 or #4... I didn't intend this to show the wound, but to show the amount of swelling on the foot pad. I think it is foot #3. Just not 100% positive about that.

Basically, my main theme for all 4 feet is that the open surfaces of the wounds look mostly or completely pink and healthy but the feet still have swelling. Is there deep infection stuck and separate from the open wounds? I pulled some firm, yellowish infection out of each wound, but far, far less than I had hoped, based on watching lots of YouTube videos. I found maybe a speck of whitish, stringy material. Foot #4 had some black colored tissue, but very small amounts compared to the swelling. When I actually cut into the area, there was a larger amount of blood than I expected. When I tried to press or massage the infection towards the opening, almost nothing moved. Both Derby and Jillaroo showed strong signs of pain on the day I attempted surgery, with actual cutting. That surgery happened the day before these pictures were taken.

All pictures taken immediately after soaking.

Thank you for advice, especially if you can check out the two additional images that I will post tomorrow.... If I trusted the internet not to lose this draft, I would wait... But I don't... So thank you for your patience with my tech issues.

Ann-Marie, IL

 

[Chapteroona]

Firstly, love the names Jilaroo and Derby! Our girls Rini and Dooby duck have been Going through a similar ( seemingly summer) situation. If you have a farm supply shop ( or amazon I guess) : microcyn spray after rinsing debris, sponge gauge squares, and a decent dab of ” silver honey” to pack the wound, wrapped in vet wrap works well. If it looks like something you’d bandaid, safe to say, I’d bandage.

 

[Chapteroona]

“Gauze” jeez

 

[CoffeeintheCoop]

“Gauze” jeez

Thank you. Yes, I've been soaking, medicating and wrapping for more than 2 weeks. I feel like I upgraded less than a week ago when I traded Prid, BlueKote (until I spilled the whole bottle) and Neosporin for Betadine and a silver wound gel that claims it can kill staph. The open wounds are healing but the swelling is not.

 

[CoffeeintheCoop]

Here is the wound on the bottom of Foot #3... I was on the phone and forgot to snap a picture until the Betadine and silver gel were already on it.

Here is the wound on the bottom of Foot #4

Again, I just would love an assessment of whether these feet are in a healing stage, if it looks like the infection is gone, or if you believe that there is deep infection well below the surface of these 4 open wounds.... I could use help because I wasn't able to remove any meaningful quantity of infection from any foot except #4...

Thank you!
Ann-Marie & the Raisin Lane Farm girls

 

[CoffeeintheCoop]

I'm sharing the few things I think I might have figured out that I haven't seen explicitly stated in dozens of YouTube videos or every (recent? suggested?) thread that I've studied here on BYC about bumblefoot... I hope my "discoveries" are helpful.

I'm seeing a rapid improvement with Betadine and Silver wound gel, compared to blukote and Neosporin. The exterior foot pad skin redness disappeared after 2 or 3 days of making that change. The interior of the wounds look much more like pink and red normal tissue even if the wounds still exist.

When I make a tiny nick with my Exacto knife and there is no blood and no pain, that seems to be associated with dead tissue edges and (for us) small bits of the stringy type of infection available to remove. When my chicken (usually Derby) with Feet 1 and 2, shows signs of pain and there is lots of fresh blood running fast from the wound, I'm not seeing dead edges or unhealthy tissue or infection. As of tonight, 3 weeks in, I think her wounds are ready to just heal and close up. I don't think she has buried infection to hunt down.

I'm realizing that even with no immediate infection to push or pull out of the wounds, on Jillaroo's Feet 3 and 4, I've continued to debride the edges of the wounds so they can try to heal from the inside out. I remember having an extremely dangerous foot infection and large wound myself (they removed 200 square cm of dead tissue and all of that had to regrow back from the inside out)... The wound center had to keep cutting the margins and I had a machine connected to me to circulate air and keep the tissue responding to stimulation the whole time. This recollection helped me have the courage to gently debride hard, dead edges...on Feet 3 and 4 especially.

Ann-Marie

 

[CoffeeintheCoop]

Foot #3 on Saturday Aug 12th before soaking. First image shows a hard lump that I have been slathering with PRID, hoping to get it near/ at the surface before trying to cut it out.

Next photo is Foot #4 before soaking... I see nasty, whitish colored stuff and hope that infection is accessible to be removed!

This is Foot #3 after soaking. It bled profusely. Everything gets slippery but I tried to make sure there was no scab and no dead tissue... I didn't remove much.

And Foot #4 after soaking and most of the cleanup. I pull out everything white, yellowish or black. The tissue I try to remove is hard to pull out, stringy and slippery and gets covered up with fresh blood as soon as I do anything.

Thank you for any opinions about how much infection might still be lurking in these two feet.

Ann-Marie