Vitamin D3 Blues - Colorado

[BurbCoop]

Over the years, we've seen a trend of consistent egg quality issues in our flock. When one of our recently added members, a Prairie Bluebell Egger, started out laying the most beautiful eggs in November, then began showing signs of the same egg quality issues that we had seen with other flock members as time went on, it was time to dig in and figure it out. There was a pattern.

The egg laying issue would first present as sandpaper eggs, however, the egg shell was strong and not thin or brittle. It seemed the hens could possibly be getting too much calcium, so we made the change off of layer feed and to all flock with free choice oyster shell as their primary source of calcium.

After some time on the new feed and free choice oyster shell, there was no improvement. The egg quality was actually getting worse. The sandpaper eggs continued, but now with the addition of thin shells and wrinkles on the end. It was starting to point towards not enough calcium, which wasn't adding up because we have always had our flock on layer feed with access to free choice oyster shells. There was plenty of available calcium in their diet.

Reading through the BYC archives, the one thing that we had not tried was Calcium Citrate + D3. Figured we would give it a try before we chalked it up as a bad egg laying gland and live with the poor quality eggs. There were a lot of posts on BYC on this topic, but not much in the way of outcomes. Did it have an impact or not

With a quick trip to Walgreens, we started giving the Prairie Bluebell Egger the Calcium Citrate + D3 pill orally in the evenings as she was roosting. After 2 days, the egg quality had improved drastically and they continue to improve. Then a lightbulb went off Even though the State of Colorado gets a crazy amount of sunlight in a given year, half the human population is vitamin D deficient. Apparently it has to do with the angle of the sun. Could this be what is going on with our hens? Vitamin D3 is necessary for hens to process calcium after all.

With that possibility in mind, we've stopped giving the Prairie Bluebell Egger the Calcium Citrate pill and have moved to focusing on D3 levels flock wide to ensure they all have the levels needed to process the calcium they have had access to all along. We've begun giving them a chicken specific layer supplement in their water that contains D3 to see where things go from here. (the supplement does not have calcium as an ingredient)

Another hunch is the light in their coop. We do provide supplemental light on a timer throughout the winter months. It has always been a standard low watt incandescent or LED bulb. Considering testing a low watt full spectrum grow light instead to see if that might help with the low D3 levels during the winter months. I have read a few threads and blog posts on the topic of full spectrum bulbs in the coop, but couldn't find anything with evidence one way or the other.

Anyways, figured I would share our story and little experiment in case it may help someone else down the road. I'll continue to post updates on if the egg quality continues to improve or if we see a decline again.

 

[Acre4Me]

Good to know!! Thanks for providing info to BYC keepers.

 

[LitchCoChick]

Over the years, we've seen a trend of consistent egg quality issues in our flock. When one of our recently added members, a Prairie Bluebell Egger, started out laying the most beautiful eggs in November, then began showing signs of the same egg quality issues that we had seen with other flock members as time went on, it was time to dig in and figure it out. There was a pattern.

The egg laying issue would first present as sandpaper eggs, however, the egg shell was strong and not thin or brittle. It seemed the hens could possibly be getting too much calcium, so we made the change off of layer feed and to all flock with free choice oyster shell as their primary source of calcium.

After some time on the new feed and free choice oyster shell, there was no improvement. The egg quality was actually getting worse. The sandpaper eggs continued, but now with the addition of thin shells and wrinkles on the end. It was starting to point towards not enough calcium, which wasn't adding up because we have always had our flock on layer feed with access to free choice oyster shells. There was plenty of available calcium in their diet.

Reading through the BYC archives, the one thing that we had not tried was Calcium Citrate + D3. Figured we would give it a try before we chalked it up as a bad egg laying gland and live with the poor quality eggs. There were a lot of posts on BYC on this topic, but not much in the way of outcomes. Did it have an impact or not

With a quick trip to Walgreens, we started giving the Prairie Bluebell Egger the Calcium Citrate + D3 pill orally in the evenings as she was roosting. After 2 days, the egg quality had improved drastically and they continue to improve. Then a lightbulb went off Even though the State of Colorado gets a crazy amount of sunlight in a given year, half the human population is vitamin D deficient. Apparently it has to do with the angle of the sun. Could this be what is going on with our hens? Vitamin D3 is necessary for hens to process calcium after all.

With that possibility in mind, we've stopped giving the Prairie Bluebell Egger the Calcium Citrate pill and have moved to focusing on D3 levels flock wide to ensure they all have the levels needed to process the calcium they have had access to all along. We've begun giving them a chicken specific layer supplement in their water that contains D3 to see where things go from here. (the supplement does not have calcium as an ingredient)

Another hunch is the light in their coop. We do provide supplemental light on a timer throughout the winter months. It has always been a standard low watt incandescent or LED bulb. Considering testing a low watt full spectrum grow light instead to see if that might help with the low D3 levels during the winter months. I have read a few threads and blog posts on the topic of full spectrum bulbs in the coop, but couldn't find anything with evidence one way or the other.

Anyways, figured I would share our story and little experiment in case it may help someone else down the road. I'll continue to post updates on if the egg quality continues to improve or if we see a decline again.

Hi there, having the same problem with one of my hens. Your experiment sounds interesting- any improvements to report?

 

[Bubblewrap]

I believe for birds to create d3 they need ultra violet light. wave length less than 420 i think. These waves also bounce off glass and do not pass as there refraction index is met. So any bird cannot derive any d3 from sunlight that has passed through glass. grow lights have minimal voilet light.

 

[BurbCoop]

Hi there, having the same problem with one of my hens. Your experiment sounds interesting- any improvements to report?

Her eggs have stabilized with much thicker shells. While the shells still have bumps, they are smooth and no longer the sandpaper feel we were seeing with the thin shelled eggs.

I would like to try running her on another round of Calcium Citrate + D3 to see if we can improve egg quality some more and hold it there with the supplements in their water.

I have swapped out the bulb in the coop with a full spectrum grow light, however, all I could really find was a 60 watt equivalent which is a bit brighter than I would like it to be. I prefer 40 watt. I’ll most likely swap back out to a standard bulb here soon and use the grow light for garden starters as intended

If your hen is laying thin sandpaper eggs, I might recommend trying the Calcium Citrate + D3 first.

 

[RT Goth Barn]

The person commenting on UV lights is correct.
In Colorado the mountains take away at least an hour of sunlight a day and I don't think they get to absorb more for being at a higher elevation.
I think the supplement is the right call here and it will be hard to fix naturally since nature is against you on this one.

 

[BurbCoop]

UPDATE: Our hen is laying smooth, harder shelled eggs, with the type of calcium deposits the indicate that she is getting more than enough vs. the thin shelled/sandpaper eggs. Did not have to run her on another round of Calcium Citrate + D3.

We're going to chalk that up as a win and start dialing back the supplements to see where things stabilize at. Grow light in the coop has been swapped back out with our standard low watt bulb. We'll see if she gets enough calcium and is able to process it correctly with just free choice oyster shell.

 

[aftica86]

Over the years, we've seen a trend of consistent egg quality issues in our flock. When one of our recently added members, a Prairie Bluebell Egger, started out laying the most beautiful eggs in November, then began showing signs of the same egg quality issues that we had seen with other flock members as time went on, it was time to dig in and figure it out. There was a pattern.

The egg laying issue would first present as sandpaper eggs, however, the egg shell was strong and not thin or brittle. It seemed the hens could possibly be getting too much calcium, so we made the change off of layer feed and to all flock with free choice oyster shell as their primary source of calcium.

After some time on the new feed and free choice oyster shell, there was no improvement. The egg quality was actually getting worse. The sandpaper eggs continued, but now with the addition of thin shells and wrinkles on the end. It was starting to point towards not enough calcium, which wasn't adding up because we have always had our flock on layer feed with access to free choice oyster shells. There was plenty of available calcium in their diet.

Reading through the BYC archives, the one thing that we had not tried was Calcium Citrate + D3. Figured we would give it a try before we chalked it up as a bad egg laying gland and live with the poor quality eggs. There were a lot of posts on BYC on this topic, but not much in the way of outcomes. Did it have an impact or not

With a quick trip to Walgreens, we started giving the Prairie Bluebell Egger the Calcium Citrate + D3 pill orally in the evenings as she was roosting. After 2 days, the egg quality had improved drastically and they continue to improve. Then a lightbulb went off Even though the State of Colorado gets a crazy amount of sunlight in a given year, half the human population is vitamin D deficient. Apparently it has to do with the angle of the sun. Could this be what is going on with our hens? Vitamin D3 is necessary for hens to process calcium after all.

With that possibility in mind, we've stopped giving the Prairie Bluebell Egger the Calcium Citrate pill and have moved to focusing on D3 levels flock wide to ensure they all have the levels needed to process the calcium they have had access to all along. We've begun giving them a chicken specific layer supplement in their water that contains D3 to see where things go from here. (the supplement does not have calcium as an ingredient)

Another hunch is the light in their coop. We do provide supplemental light on a timer throughout the winter months. It has always been a standard low watt incandescent or LED bulb. Considering testing a low watt full spectrum grow light instead to see if that might help with the low D3 levels during the winter months. I have read a few threads and blog posts on the topic of full spectrum bulbs in the coop, but couldn't find anything with evidence one way or the other.

Anyways, figured I would share our story and little experiment in case it may help someone else down the road. I'll continue to post updates on if the egg quality continues to improve or if we see a decline again.

Hi I saw your post on vitamin D3 and wanted
To see how your success was going with the
VitD3 in water . I have a 2yr old Sussex who
started giving me problems mid may , I did
The Calcium citrate /vit D with no success.

I was recently at my feed store and got talking
To someone who said she might just be vit d3
deficient as the egg is always detached from the yolk. She recommended a supplement for water
they were out of one that was just a D3 but i
Purchased a poul -vite vit supplement that D3
In it . I was just wondering how long it took
Before or if you have seen any difference.

Thanks

 

[BurbCoop]

Hi I saw your post on vitamin D3 and wanted
To see how your success was going with the
VitD3 in water . I have a 2yr old Sussex who
started giving me problems mid may , I did
The Calcium citrate /vit D with no success.

I was recently at my feed store and got talking
To someone who said she might just be vit d3
deficient as the egg is always detached from the yolk. She recommended a supplement for water
they were out of one that was just a D3 but i
Purchased a poul -vite vit supplement that D3
In it . I was just wondering how long it took
Before or if you have seen any difference.

Thanks

The Calcium Citrate + D3 worked quickly in our case. There was an improvement in just a few days. I’ve heard varying results depending on the specific laying issue.

The egg being detached from the yolk would seem to go beyond a vitamin deficiency in my mind. She could have some more serious reproductive issues.

Below is the water supplement we are giving our hens. The reason I went with that one in particular is there is no added Calcium. I didn’t want to overdose the rest of the flock on unneeded/forced Calcium. A lot of the other water supplements and feed have added calcium, so you have to watch our for the others in the flock.

So far, the initial dose of Calcium Citrate + D3 and this supplement has seemed to help our hen with her issues. It definitely seemed she was having issues processing the calcium she had access to with what we were seeing.

Your hen doesn’t have more serious reproductive issues. We went through that with one of our previous hens and it was tough. Can you post a pic of one of her eggs with the yolk detached?

 

[aftica86]

The Calcium Citrate + D3 worked quickly in our case. There was an improvement in just a few days. I’ve heard varying results depending on the specific laying issue.

The egg being detached from the yolk would seem to go beyond a vitamin deficiency in my mind. She could have some more serious reproductive issues.

Below is the water supplement we are giving our hens. The reason I went with that one in particular is there is no added Calcium. I didn’t want to overdose the rest of the flock on unneeded/forced Calcium. A lot of the other water supplements and feed have added calcium, so you have to watch our for the others in the flock.

So far, the initial dose of Calcium Citrate + D3 and this supplement has seemed to help our hen with her issues. It definitely seemed she was having issues processing the calcium she had access to with what we were seeing.

Your hen doesn’t have more serious reproductive issues. We went through that with one of our previous hens and it was tough. Can you post a pic of one of her eggs with the yolk detached?

View attachment 3558866

View attachment 3558868

Thanks for getting back to me when she does lay
She seems to want to do it outside in the yard later
in the day for the most part. When she does do it
It will be the egg yolk that come first. Then she will
either push out the rubber shell membrane or
go inside to one of the nesting boxes . She still
Will go into the nesting boxes in the morning but
comes up empty. I presume this was where the
people at the feed store thought perhaps it was
a D3 deficiency because the egg isn’t attaching
to the shell . It’s been a mystery she started dropping
soft shelled eggs from the roost and night then
went this route. I have them on a good quality feed
A double duty grit and oyster shell I also crush
up the egg shells so I’m doing everything I can
think of to ensure the Calcium is there. I’m not
sure if I should try the Vit D3 liquid when it comes in . You’re right it is tough. I had my neighbor pop over and have a look at her other than this issue he remarked on how healthy she looked. What was the outcome with the hen you had did she ever reverse it can they?

This is still all a bit new for me so thanks
for your feedback. We don’t have quite all
The same products up here in Canada