When is the coop training enough?

[Hablo]

Hi there!

I own a couple of guineas since two weeks.
I first got them with unclipped wings. Like the breeder said, I locked them up with the chickens in the coop for one night and 4 hours in the morning and let them out then. They were very shy and were always some meters outside our property except when I shooed them to our ground. It wasn't possible to get them into the coop again. They always roosted in the trees.
At the 4th day, the hen was laying half eaten in our property. Schorsch, the male guinea, was freaking out then. He screamed a lot and flew around in our village wherever he wanted to. Catching him was impossible. And at night he slept at 15 metres height or so.
So I decided to buy a new female guinea, I named her Petra.

When I came back home, Schorsch was roosting in our coop. I closed it and clipped the wings of Schorsch and Petra and did it like some friends suggested. I locked them up in the coop in a cage ( so that the chicken can go in, lay eggs and go there to roost at sunset) for one week.
After one week, they were really nice. They were the whole time with the chickens, stayed on the property and also were not that shy anymore. Sometimes they came a bit towards me instead of running away and hiding when seeing me.
In the first night, Petra was roosting under the goat's hut. I catched her and put her into the coop. Schorsch couldn't be found anywhere. Next morning Schorsch returned.
Second night: I put a bright LED light into the coop as I read that this should help the guineas come into it.
I drove the two successfully into the coop with another house mate.
Third night: I drove Petra into the coop, but Schorsch was freaking out, ran away anywhere in our little village.

To sum it up a bit: Petra screamed for Schorsch and went into the village, found him and the two didn't come back to my property. I tried it several times. Then I could catch Schorsch in the edge of a barn, locked him up in a big cage on the meadow in the afternoon.
Next day, after 24 hours, he started shouting for Petra. She came back in a few minutes.

I HATE to lock the two up in cages but obviously, it helped a bit that the two stayed here and stayed with the chickens. Also, I read a lot about locking only one of them up and let the other roam so that the two don't go away because they wanna stay together.

At the moment, I am changing every second day the Guinea who is locked up and the one who is allowed to free range.
I also read in one article about putting a red light into the coop.
IT WORKED PERFECTLY!!
Now, both Petra and Schorsch came into the coop one time for themselves since I put the red light there.

Actually, I wanted to do this training for two weeks, but I feel so guilty when I stuff one of them into the cage. It hurts me
What do you think? When are they ready to roam like the chickens without one caged up?
I mean: Is it more because of the red light they come into the coop or because of the other guinea? One evening, Petra roosted in the goat's hut when I had Schorsch locked up in the cage in the coop but without a red light there.
So, perhaps I can let the two out and it works?
But I don't wanna make the mistake to make the training too short.

What do you think?

 

[R2elk]

Hi there!

I own a couple of guineas since two weeks.
I first got them with unclipped wings. Like the breeder said, I locked them up with the chickens in the coop for one night and 4 hours in the morning and let them out then. They were very shy and were always some meters outside our property except when I shooed them to our ground. It wasn't possible to get them into the coop again. They always roosted in the trees.
At the 4th day, the hen was laying half eaten in our property. Schorsch, the male guinea, was freaking out then. He screamed a lot and flew around in our village wherever he wanted to. Catching him was impossible. And at night he slept at 15 metres height or so.
So I decided to buy a new female guinea, I named her Petra.

When I came back home, Schorsch was roosting in our coop. I closed it and clipped the wings of Schorsch and Petra and did it like some friends suggested. I locked them up in the coop in a cage ( so that the chicken can go in, lay eggs and go there to roost at sunset) for one week.
After one week, they were really nice. They were the whole time with the chickens, stayed on the property and also were not that shy anymore. Sometimes they came a bit towards me instead of running away and hiding when seeing me.
In the first night, Petra was roosting under the goat's hut. I catched her and put her into the coop. Schorsch couldn't be found anywhere. Next morning Schorsch returned.
Second night: I put a bright LED light into the coop as I read that this should help the guineas come into it.
I drove the two successfully into the coop with another house mate.
Third night: I drove Petra into the coop, but Schorsch was freaking out, ran away anywhere in our little village.

To sum it up a bit: Petra screamed for Schorsch and went into the village, found him and the two didn't come back to my property. I tried it several times. Then I could catch Schorsch in the edge of a barn, locked him up in a big cage on the meadow in the afternoon.
Next day, after 24 hours, he started shouting for Petra. She came back in a few minutes.

I HATE to lock the two up in cages but obviously, it helped a bit that the two stayed here and stayed with the chickens. Also, I read a lot about locking only one of them up and let the other roam so that the two don't go away because they wanna stay together.

At the moment, I am changing every second day the Guinea who is locked up and the one who is allowed to free range.
I also read in one article about putting a red light into the coop.
IT WORKED PERFECTLY!!
Now, both Petra and Schorsch came into the coop one time for themselves since I put the red light there.

Actually, I wanted to do this training for two weeks, but I feel so guilty when I stuff one of them into the cage. It hurts me
What do you think? When are they ready to roam like the chickens without one caged up?
I mean: Is it more because of the red light they come into the coop or because of the other guinea? One evening, Petra roosted in the goat's hut when I had Schorsch locked up in the cage in the coop but without a red light there.
So, perhaps I can let the two out and it works?
But I don't wanna make the mistake to make the training too short.

What do you think?

I think you should rehome them to someone who has a flock of guineas.

Guineas are a flock bird and do best in large groups of guineas. I never recommend having fewer than ten for proper flock dynamics.

I don't recommend keeping guineas with the chickens. Guineas have entirely different instincts and habits than any other poultry. Chickens do not understand the races and chases or the attacks from behind with the feather pulling and feather breaking. Chickens do not know how to show submission in "guinea".

When starting with young guineas they can seem to get along great with chickens until breeding season happens. At that point their instincts kick in and they can terrorize chickens.

 

[SamLockwood]

It takes a lot longer to train guineas that the coop is "home" than a night or two. Plus, even with integrating new chickens into a flock of chickens you never want to just cram them in together without any warning. Your established flock will chase and attack them, which is one reason your guineas stayed off the property. Look up some of the threads on integrating new chicks.

In my case, I got my guineas as day-old keets and moved them to the coop after two weeks. I then kept them in the enclosed run until they were 8 weeks old, and then did only limited free-ranging: just for an hour or two before dusk and then only half of the flock at a time. Whenever I introduce new birds, they're in a separate "nursery" coop with a mini-run below so that the adults and chicks can "look but not touch" for at least 4 weeks before I let them have any direct contact with each other.

As R2Elk said, guineas are very flock-oriented birds. Chickens are, too, but a pair of chickens that wanders off on their own doesn't start freaking out after 30 seconds. I don't know what the minimum number really is since I've never had less than 12 guineas. However, watching them when they split off into pairs and sub-flocks over the summer I'd say they wouldn't be comfortable in groups of less than 5 or 6 for any length of time.

Having a mixed flock of guineas can be "complicated." I've never experienced any of the horror stories some people describe, however my birds free-range all day and the sleeping areas are connected but visually separated: two coops with an enclosed run in between them. There's a lot of land for them to wander around and basically stay out of each others' way all day.

One day I'm going to write down all of my mixed flock experiences, but the short version is that I think guineas have two distinct personalities depending on the time of year.

"Winter guineas" are sweet if noisy creatures that are extremely people-friendly (at least with people they know). They're rigid pacifists with intra-flock violence and the group will try to break-up fights whenever possible (they're even doing this with my young roosters). They'll get along great with your chickens.

"Summer guineas" are ill-tempered little bastards that only care about their own mates, young and eggs (which they will defend with astonishing aggressiveness). They get extremely pushy, and integrating new birds (even guineas) is difficult with summer guineas. In my flock the guinea hens kept chasing the keets & chicks into the woods. I had to get creative integrating them into the flock. The guineas became this feathered biker-gang that when it showed up to dust bathe or feed or roost it was best everyone that wasn't a guinea just get the hell out of their way. If your chickens have places to go that's out of the guineas' line-of-sight and they're inclined to let the guineas have their way, thinks will be OK. If those options aren't available things will very likely be extremely NOT-OK.

 

[Hablo]

Thanks @R2elk and @SamLockwood for your long answers.

"f your chickens have places to go that's out of the guineas' line-of-sight and they're inclined to let the guineas have their way, thinks will be OK"
We do have a very big free ranging area here, so this is possible.

My plan is to get more guineas.
At the moment, my guineas are allowed to free range such as the chickens. Every sunset I have to drive the chickens and the guineas into the coop. It works well, but it would be more practicable if the guineas went there on their own as the chickens do.
I mean, I could wait until it gets really dark, but I did it a few times and then Schorsch roosted in the tree and Petra wasn't findable.

I thought I would buy 2 new guineas when Schorsch and Petra would go on their own into the coop, but as I read in your experience, it's better to get new guineas before spring.

At the moment, as you said, the guineas and chickens seem to get along well.

 

[R2elk]

I mean, I could wait until it gets really dark, but I did it a few times and then Schorsch roosted in the tree and Petra wasn't findable.

You have to get the guineas iin the coop before dark. They do not like entering dark places.

"f your chickens have places to go that's out of the guineas' line-of-sight and they're inclined to let the guineas have their way, thinks will be OK"
We do have a very big free ranging area here, so this is possible.

It's even more important that the guineas have extra room in the coop area.

 

[Hablo]

They DID go into the chicken coop this afternoon independently and roosted on the bars

 

[Hablo]

They did go in again