Wild and pushy goats

[Everose]

Does anyone have a specific way of handling their goats and keeping them calm?
Or does anyone milk without milking ration on the stand? I know that's not a likely scenario but if there was a way to get them up on the stand without all of their buddies trying to go with them my situation would be greatly improved. I have a double gate, but even that isn't helping very much

My mini nubians were a joy to own at first, and I still love them, but they're brutal jerks. They're supposed to be docile and easy to handle, and they were at first. But this year they're incredibly pushy, they jump, they shove gates open before I can latch them, they just trample each other at milking time. I'm really getting sick of it.
I'm not a large person, did they just figure out that they're stronger than me? They have always been food motivated, and I can usually use that to my advantage, but lately they're just plain mean. I can't hold them back once they see a feed bucket two fences away. When I'm in the pasture with no food they're the docile angels I've always loved, they're sweet and gentle. Have I coddled them too much?

 

[cassie]

Without watching you and the goats interact it is hard to make an opinion. It sounds like you have a bunch of spoiled goats. I had a commercial dairy for many years. I did not have the problems you describe, but then my goats, from day one, knew I was the herd boss. As for aggressive gate shovers, I would never have been above giving the culprit a sharp whack across the nose with anything handy. I have always had zero tolerance for brats of any species. My feeders were fenceline, which meant I could put in feed without going inside the pen. For your own safety, and theirs, you are going to have to figure out how to teach them some manners.

 

[Everose]

Without watching you and the goats interact it is hard to make an opinion. It sounds like you have a bunch of spoiled goats. I had a commercial dairy for many years. I did not have the problems you describe, but then my goats, from day one, knew I was the herd boss. As for aggressive gate shovers, I would never have been above giving the culprit a sharp whack across the nose with anything handy. I have always had zero tolerance for brats of any species. My feeders were fenceline, which meant I could put in feed without going inside the pen. For your own safety, and theirs, you are going to have to figure out how to teach them some manners.

I've never been rough or bossy with them. So I think you may be correct. My method gas always been to tug on collars or shove their chests backwards.
I've been told they came from a herd of well over 100 goats and I can imagine their previous owner didn't spoil them quite like I do. They also had an extremely rough and bratty herd queen who used to keep them away from me, after I got rid of her they got a little more wild.
I'll definitely take your advice, and thank you so much for your reply, I had been feeling like it was my attitude towards them but I really wanted a second opinion before acting.

 

[Faeshka]

There's a saying with horses...every time you handle or ride them, you're training them. It sounds like they've learned this behavior.

I have a milk stand on my screen porch. I have learned that one of my does must be milked first, so I make sure to get her. I get her up on the stand, put feed in her bucket, milk her, she gets her raisin treats, and then she goes back out the door. If there's any feed leftover after milking, I divide it between 3 feeders and space them out on the ground so there's no fights over it.

If you can find a place with pallets, they can make fencing rather easily. So you can make a milking area and also a holding area. Getting them used to a new routine won't be easy, but they will figure it out.

Part of working with any species is understanding how they behave, which includes how they settle disagreements between them. I hate having to whack mine, but anything I do isn't as bad as what they do to each other. Learning behavior takes time, but when you do you learn how to subtly adjust things so you don't have to resort to hitting. I'm there with my horses but I don't know much about goats yet, so I don't have anything more specific since they don't respond the same way my horses do to say me stomping my foot.

I'm not a big person either, but understanding the species' behavior plus having a setup that lets me control things is what has been working for me.

 

[Folara]

I have just two Nigerian Dwarf wethers and they definitely become monsters with food! If they can't be kept separate, I highly recommend tying them up when you're ready to milk so they learn to wait patiently for their turn. I can't do anything to one without the other up in our faces and they have learned to lay down and be patient while tied. If you aren't familiar with Blue Cactus Dairy Goats on Youtube, check out the video "How To Train Your Goat To Behave On The Milk Stand" - in the beginning she gets each one tied to the fence and most of them know the routine. They are in general a pretty great goat resource!

They will definitely become pushy and more assertive when they know they can push you around, so if you can't hold your ground with them a squirt bottle can be very helpful. I started out trying to manage the behavior with roughness and squirt bottles, however I realized the root of their behavior was their food routine and once I changed that up they have been a lot better. Mine have much less dietary requirements than a milking goat though so you'll have to experiment with what works best for you.

Every morning I would go out and give them their goodies and every morning they would scream until I came out, then they would beat up each other and bounce off me until food was delivered. I couldn't spend time with them because all they wanted was that food! I decided to switch it up - they would randomly get their food in the afternoon, evening, or the morning so they didn't know when to expect it. Now I'm able to go out at any time with minimal screaming and actually hang out with them without constant harassment. This might not work with everyone's schedule but as you noticed, they become so sweet when they aren't expecting food!

 

[Everose]

I'm not a big person either, but understanding the species' behavior plus having a setup that lets me control things is what has been working for me.

I have a double gate, that's been helping. They almost broke it off it's hinges today tho

Part of working with any species is understanding how they behave, which includes how they settle disagreements between them. I hate having to whack mine, but anything I do isn't as bad as what they do to each other.

Mine are quite rough at times, I guess I'll have to get used to the fact that my little swat really won't injure them.
I try soothing them and making their good and calm behavior our stopping point, I won't take them off the milk stand if they're having a fit, they have to calmly walk off and they usually stop for a minute to lick me or lean into a hug, but before they get to the stand they act like the spawn of Satan.

I started out trying to manage the behavior with roughness and squirt bottles, however I realized the root of their behavior was their food routine and once I changed that up they have been a lot better.

Did squirt bottles work at all? My goats absolutely hate water and I haven't tried squirting them yet.

If you aren't familiar with Blue Cactus Dairy Goats on Youtube, check out the video "How To Train Your Goat To Behave On The Milk Stand" - in the beginning she gets each one tied to the fence and most of them know the routine. They are in general a pretty great goat resource!

I love her channel! I'll definitely look up that video.

 

[cassie]

Squirt bottles work fine under many circumstances but dealing with a determined pushy gate crasher, a sharp whack across the nose gets the point across a lot better and faster. This is a safety issue. You have to speak to them in a language they can understand. I was never rough with my goats (except for the occasional and well-deserved whack) but I was assertive.

 

[Folara]

Did squirt bottles work at all? My goats absolutely hate water and I haven't tried squirting them yet.

They definitely do work, but like Cassie mentioned if they are extremely pushy at this point a stronger message might be needed at first to gain some respect from them. Although I would say it wouldn't hurt to try the squirt bottle first, or if you need a little more extreme turn the hose on them (weather permitting) - aim for the face! If you can't get the message across the first time with water then get more physical. If you've been mostly sweet to them, the shock factor alone will help!

I do hate being physical though, so I've been trying other ways to prevent unwanted behaviors. The squirt bottle works for my boys, and I can also scare their pants off by stomping and clapping and chasing them out of my space. Tying has been so relieving and peaceful for everyone though - I'm able to do anything I want without harassment and they aren't constantly harassed by me.

 

[lomine]

Do you milk them/put them on the milk stand in the same order each time? I didn't do this when I first started and would just grab which ever doe was closest. When I switched to going in the same order it made things a lot easier. Each one learned that she would go on her turn, and they generally just eat from their freshly filled alfalfa feeders while they wait. As I have does nursing/in milk I can't switch up feeding or milking times, but I don't give treats on a schedule and that helps them from becoming used to getting them.

I agree that a good bop on the nose or a deliberate shove can help in curving bad behavior. I have NDs and one Mini Nubian so they aren't big goats, but if they were to push and jump, they could easily take me off my feet. That could get dangerous fast.

 

[Everose]

Do you milk them/put them on the milk stand in the same order each time? I didn't do this when I first started and would just grab which ever doe was closest. When I switched to going in the same order it made things a lot easier. Each one learned that she would go on her turn, and they generally just eat from their freshly filled alfalfa feeders while they wait. As I have does nursing/in milk I can't switch up feeding or milking times, but I don't give treats on a schedule and that helps them from becoming used to getting them.

I agree that a good bop on the nose or a deliberate shove can help in curving bad behavior. I have NDs and one Mini Nubian so they aren't big goats, but if they were to push and jump, they could easily take me off my feet. That could get dangerous fast.

I do milk them in order, the thing is I milk the meek and mild ones last, because the herd queen must be first. But when I put the boss lady back she immediately tries to get back out. And then there's her arch enemy (who also tried her best last year to separate my arm from my shoulder every morning on the stand) who wants to get on the stand, and the both of them are quite large for mini nubians, so the two of them shoving at once is too much for me to hold back
It makes getting my two favorites almost impossible since they aren't pushy like the big girls.
My double gate at least keeps them from getting to the stand, but it still doesn't make handling them much easier.
Saturday I was quite bossy with them and they cut me some slack. I'll keep popping noses and tossing in a scoop of feed for distraction, that seems to be helping.