WILL A SELF-BLUE BANTAM COCHIN GOING TO PRODUCE BLUE, SPLASH, AND BLACK WHEN BRED WITH ANOTHER SELF

[MountainMarans2012]

I was told they produce blue chicks every time, but I want to know for sure before breeding the self-blue hens to a self-blue rooster if they create blue chicks every time. I know Blue x Blue will create 50% Blue / 25% Splash / 25% Black.

 

[junebuggena]

Self Blue is a completely different gene from the Blue/Black/Splash gene. It's a recessive dilute gene. A bird must have two copies of the gene for it to express. A Self Blue bred to Self Blue can only produce more Self Blue.

 

[MountainMarans2012]

Thank you....That is what the breeder told me when I purchased them. I now have a friend that wants eggs from them to hatch and only wants the blue coloring.

 

[junebuggena]

Does your friend want Blue or Self Blue/Lavende? You're using terminology for two very different colorations.

 

[Jayzandra]

And THIS is why it should be called lavender, not self blue. Js

 

[Wappoke]

I was told they produce blue chicks every time, but I want to know for sure before breeding the self-blue hens to a self-blue rooster if they create blue chicks every time. I know Blue x Blue will create 50% Blue / 25% Splash / 25% Black.

The answer is yes and no.

The term self blue can refer to the plumage color of a fowl that carries an incompletely dominant blue allele and a recessive non-blue allele or a fowl that carries two recessive lavender alleles.

If a person crosses two hypostatic self black birds and each bird is homozygous for lavender , all the offspring will be self blue.

If a person crosses two hypostatic self black birds, and each bird is heterozygous at the blue locus ( carry a blue and non-blue allele); the offspring will be self blue, splash and self black.

The term self refers to a solid colored bird that does not have any patterns on its feathers. Some blue birds have secondary color patterns on their blue feathers. A good example can be observed in the blue andalusion fowl which has a black lace on its blue feathers. see link below

http://www.ruleworks.co.uk/poultry/images/poultryshow2012/andalusian-bantam7.jpg


The term self is older terminology that describes the color of the bird like self white, self black or self buff. I believe the terminology should be changed to blue, lavender and blue laced. You will also see the term andalusian blue which should refer to blue laced.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

All blue birds should have lacing period. A blue bird without lacing is just a poor example of a blue bird not a self blue as it can't make blue by itself- it breeds out blue, black and splash as it's blue not lavender. Self blue is a term ONLY used for (another way of saying) lavender.

To put it another way- blue and lavender are two completely different color genetics. Self blue is lavender and lavender is self blue.

 

[Wappoke]

All blue birds should have lacing period. A blue bird without lacing is just a poor example of a blue bird not a self blue as it can't make blue by itself- it breeds out blue, black and splash as it's blue not lavender. Self blue is a term ONLY used for (another way of saying) lavender.

To put it another way- blue and lavender are two completely different color genetics. Self blue is lavender and lavender is self blue.

what do you call a bird that carries the blue allele but does not have lacing on the feathers.? If it is not blue then what is it?

As I said in my earlier post self is an older term used to describe birds that do not have secondary color patterns on their feathers. The following paragraphs come from a study published by Lippincott. Here he is describing the phenotypic outcome of a heterozygous blue crossing. In his paper, he operationally defines splash as blue-splashed.

In his descriptions, he does not describe or mention black lacing on the birds.

" These facts have led to the current view that the case involves a single allelomorphic pair of characters. The blacks and blue-splashed represent the homozygous conditions, while the self blue is the heterozygote between the two. When blues are interbred, blacks, blues, and blue-splashed are produced in a ratio approximating 1: 2: 1 for these classes, respectively, which seems to corroborate this view."

"Emphasis has usually been laid on their distinctness from the black and the blue-splashed birds, but it seems important to note their resemblance to these two classes. In the first place, they are like the blacks in being self-colored, that is, all feathers in all parts of the body are pigmented."

I have provided a reference for the paper.

Lippincott, W. A. (1918). The case of the Blue Andalusian. American Naturalist, 95-115.

Your description of blue is based upon the Standard of Perfection's definition of blue. My descriptions are based on other sources and how the sources relate to the genetics of a bird.

 

[junebuggena]

what do you call a bird that carries the blue allele but does not have lacing on the feathers.? If it is not blue then what is it?

It's not really lacing, but edging. And it would still genetically be Blue, just not a show quality or breeder stock worthy bird. As previously stated, blue and self blue/lavender are two very different genes and completely unrelated genes. They not only inherit in completely different manners, they dilute differently. The Blue dilute gene is a dominant gene, that only requires one copy for expression. It also only affects black. A single copy of the gene produces Blue. Two copies produce Splash. The lavender gene is recessive, and it not only dilutes black to a pale grey, but also dilutes red/gold coloring.

 

[Wappoke]

It's not really lacing, but edging. And it would still genetically be Blue, just not a show quality or breeder stock worthy bird. As previously stated, blue and self blue/lavender are two very different genes and completely unrelated genes. They not only inherit in completely different manners, they dilute differently. The Blue dilute gene is a dominant gene, that only requires one copy for expression. It also only affects black. A single copy of the gene produces Blue. Two copies produce Splash. The lavender gene is recessive, and it not only dilutes black to a pale grey, but also dilutes red/gold coloring.

My question was directed at EggheadJr.