Advice for breeding BBS (Blue Black Splash) genetics! 🐣

[hannahsocal]

Calling all BBS breeders and geneticists! After much searching, I have yet to find a single post where there is concise, useful information on bbs breeding - so I’m hopefully starting one here! I’m new to the BBS breeding world but am not new to the biology/genetics world, so it would be wonderful to hear some bbs-specific advice if anyone is willing to share their sage wisdom.

Of course, there is the standard Punnett square part of bbs breeding [(blue x blue = 50% blue, 25% black, 25% splash) (black x blue = 50% black, 50% blue) (splash x blue = 50% splash, 50% blue) (splash x black = 100% blue). But my real curiosity lies in the details about WHAT the best ways to breed bbs are and WHY you as a breeder or geneticist would choose those methods. For example, if you produce the most blues with a black x splash clutch, why would it not be good to always do that? Why and when would you want to add a black or a splash into the mix? How do you take body type and feather lacing into consideration for the SOP? All answers are much appreciated! Thanks!

 

[NatJ]

But my real curiosity lies in the details about WHAT the best ways to breed bbs are and WHY you as a breeder or geneticist would choose those methods. For example, if you produce the most blues with a black x splash clutch, why would it not be good to always do that? Why and when would you want to add a black or a splash into the mix? How do you take body type and feather lacing into consideration for the SOP? All answers are much appreciated! Thanks!

One reason to breed blues (rather than black x splash) is that you can select for shade of blue and quality of lacing, because those don't look the same in black or splash.

Yes, black x splash will always produce blues-- but if those are the only chicks you produce, you don't have any black or splash to use for the next generation.

I have read that breeding blue x blue leads to lighter blues in later generations, and that breeding the lighter blues to blacks will produce darker blues again. I can't think of any genetic mechanism that would make this work, and I don't have personal experience to prove or disprove it, so I can't tell if it's a myth or if it really does work that way.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Yes, there apparently is an accumulation effect when breeding Blue to Blue that makes them paler over time if a flock is only bred Blue to Blue. I'm setting out to see how true that is with my silkied Cochins, but of course that'll only be starting next year because they're still babies yet.

From what I've seen when trying to find that information, breeding Black to Splash creates a spectrum of shades of Blue, some paler and some darker, which is why it's not as recommended. Also, as NatJ said, you then only have Blues to pick from in the next generation so you can't simply continue breeding Black to Splash generation after generation.

Breeding Blue to Blue allows you to produce mostly similar shades of Blue rather than that spectrum, and also you're able to select for a proper shade of Blue and the proper lacing as NatJ also pointed out, but it's advised to outcross to Black every now and then in order to maintain a deeper shade of Blue and nicer lacing without that accumulation effect causing your Blues to get too pale. For the standard, generally a deeper slate color is preferred than a paler one from my understanding.

I'm still a relative newbie when it comes to selecting for type and such, so I'll leave that part of your questions to others if they happen by.

 

[hannahsocal]

Yes, there apparently is an accumulation effect when breeding Blue to Blue that makes them paler over time if a flock is only bred Blue to Blue. I'm setting out to see how true that is with my silkied Cochins, but of course that'll only be starting next year because they're still babies yet.

From what I've seen when trying to find that information, breeding Black to Splash creates a spectrum of shades of Blue, some paler and some darker, which is why it's not as recommended. Also, as NatJ said, you then only have Blues to pick from in the next generation so you can't simply continue breeding Black to Splash generation after generation.

Breeding Blue to Blue allows you to produce mostly similar shades of Blue rather than that spectrum, and also you're able to select for a proper shade of Blue and the proper lacing as NatJ also pointed out, but it's advised to outcross to Black every now and then in order to maintain a deeper shade of Blue and nicer lacing without that accumulation effect causing your Blues to get too pale. For the standard, generally a deeper slate color is preferred than a paler one from my understanding.

I'm still a relative newbie when it comes to selecting for type and such, so I'll leave that part of your questions to others if they happen by.

Makes sense! That’s what I’ve heard generally too. It’s weird how there’s not more specific and anecdotal info floating around though, right? Do you think there would ever be a situation where you’d want to breed a splash with a blue? Or do most bbs breeders always “toss out” the splash from the breeding pool?

 

[NatJ]

Do you think there would ever be a situation where you’d want to breed a splash with a blue? Or do most bbs breeders always “toss out” the splash from the breeding pool?

Many other traits are very important too-- body shape and size, and feathering, and skin color, and egg color, and laying ability, and so on. If the splash bird has other good traits, you might still use it in breeding.

Statement of the obvious-- if you focused only on color and ignored other traits, there would be no way to tell if the blue chicken was supposed to be an Andalusian, and Australorp, or an Ameraucana!

 

[hannahsocal]

Many other traits are very important too-- body shape and size, and feathering, and skin color, and egg color, and laying ability, and so on. If the splash bird has other good traits, you might still use it in breeding.

Statement of the obvious-- if you focused only on color and ignored other traits, there would be no way to tell if the blue chicken was supposed to be an Andalusian, and Australorp, or an Ameraucana!

Makes sense!

 

[3KillerBs]

You might find these threads from when I was picking my future flockmaster interesting:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/evaluating-my-blue-australorp-cockerels.1503285/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...photos-of-the-candidates-and-weights.1506145/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-much-weight-should-i-put-on-weight.1506932/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/second-guessing-red-vs-green.1509422/

I've been told that it's important to cross blues to black every couple generations in order to maintain good lacing. I don't know why that works.

My thought for my flock, which currently has a blue Flockmaster and Blue hens in the first generation is to keep a few black girls and to, if possible, keep a splash male as junior flockmaster -- unless I get a Blue who is just so much more outstanding than his father than I ought to replace Rameses.

 

[3KillerBs]

I'm thinking more about this and about longer-term plans in conjunction with my culling thread.

For those with experience with BBS birds,

Does it sound reasonable to plan to keep a Blue male and a Splash male (assuming all other criteria apply so that they're both good birds and worthy of breeding), with a mix of Blue, Black, and Splash hens?

Would that seem likely to keep the colors going nicely without losing the lacing?

Also, if I consistently select the darkest blues can they become too dark?

 

[hannahsocal]

I'm thinking more about this and about longer-term plans in conjunction with my culling thread.

For those with experience with BBS birds,

Does it sound reasonable to plan to keep a Blue male and a Splash male (assuming all other criteria apply so that they're both good birds and worthy of breeding), with a mix of Blue, Black, and Splash hens?

Would that seem likely to keep the colors going nicely without losing the lacing?

Also, if I consistently select the darkest blues can they become too dark?

I personally keep both a blue and black roo. Like someone else said above, it might not be good to keep a splash for lacing unless you like their body shape or want a light shade of blue.

 

[3KillerBs]

I personally keep both a blue and black roo. Like someone else said above, it might not be good to keep a splash for lacing unless you like their body shape or want a light shade of blue.

I wonder though, can blues can get too dark? I haven't taken pictures yet, but a couple of my pullets are almost charcoal-colored.