Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[DMRippy]

Quote: ABC site http://www.ameraucana.org/faq.html#TWO

 

[Tailfeathers]

ABC site http://www.ameraucana.org/faq.html#TWO

I know what that link says but the definition you are using is much too broad. I have talked with Mike Gilbert specifically about this in the past and I think - but not positive - that I've seen John Blehm comment on the Forum about this as well. I can't remember if I ever talked with him about this.

It just naturally stands to reason that if you hatch out a dozen chicks from the same set of parents that are pure to the breed and the variety, and one of those chicks is off-colored or maybe clean-faced or has stubs, then it would not be considered an Easter Egger. In fact, I'll tell ya what, write Paul Smith an email and ask him if he considered his birds that occasionally will have stubs show up if they are Easter Eggers.

I can tell you that I've maintained a closed flock since I got my original birds from Paul and I've had the occasional off-colored Wheaten (see the ABC Forum for "Calico") and last year I had a few chicks show up with stubs. They is NO way they are Easter Eggers. They are simply culls that don't meet the SOP. To confuse this with an Easter Egger is to deny genetics and one could reasonably achieve a SQ offspring by breeding the off-colored, clean-faced, or stubbed bird back to it's parents. But you ain't gonna get that from an Easter Egger because it is a cross normally of two totally different breeds. Remember, the same link you quoted say the bird only has to breed true 50% of the time!

God Bless,

 

[Tailfeathers]

Duped it somehow.

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

I thought ANY questionable bird that does not meet the American Standard of Perfection for AMERAUCANA was defined by the AMERAUCANA BREEDERS CLUB as an Easter Egger. Is that not a correct definition?

 

[Tailfeathers]

No it is not. For the reasons I just enumerated.

God Bless,

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Glad to know, thanks : )

 

[pips&peeps]

The bird in question is an easter egger. The body type is so way off.

 

[pips&peeps]

I thought ANY questionable bird that does not meet the American Standard of Perfection for AMERAUCANA was defined by the AMERAUCANA BREEDERS CLUB as an Easter Egger. Is that not a correct definition?

To my knowlege this is true.

ETA: There are so many other things to consider when breeding; projects, etc.

 

[Mahonri]

Quote:

 

[PoultryPedia]

Where did this definition come from? It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Anyone who's bred chickens for any length of time - and it doesn't matter what breed I imagine but I know it's the case with my four breeds - knows that you can and do wind up with offspring from pure birds that don't fit the Standard. I'm not going into all the various things I've experienced by I've posted numerous things on the ABC Forum about some of what I've seen and NOBODY has ever told me I've got an Easter Egger. It's simply a cull that resulted in some severe fault or DQ due to genetics.

Granted, a crossing of two approved varieties of Ameraucanas that are not genetically compatible would be considered an Easter Egger BECAUSE the cross is not genetically compatible but I think in most cases most folks who have or are getting Easter Eggers are getting a cross between an Ameraucana or EE and some other totally different breed.

It's simply not accurate to call a cull that resulted from a pure mating where all its brothers and sisters are fine - an EE.

God Bless,

I've created a "How to tell a chicken's breed" webpage to offer an explanation of some of the dynamics involved, according to my understanding. It's at http://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/how-to-tell-a-chicken-s-breed. I'm pasting the content below.
Anyone, please pass on any additional insights that might help refine the page!

What breed is that chicken?​

We cannot say that any chicken is "purebred."

Tracking chicken parentage is too logistically difficult to be practical generally.

• It can be very hard to know which egg came from which mating, to keep track of an individual egg in an incubator or under a hen (especially a hen brooding "adopted" eggs), to tell chicks apart, etc. It is possible to segregate breeding pairs, and then specially mark eggs and chicks, but few people want to take on such involved processes.
• Also, chickens can each have a large number of offspring & a fairly high percent may die in embryo or while still chicks, so it can be overwhelming trying to keep records of each.
  

There are no "breed registries" for chickens.

• There is no way to "prove" a bird's ancestry. Unlike for dogs or horses, there are no organizations that store certified pedigrees for chickens.

Fanciers of specific types of chickens often breed "outside" birds into main lines.

• Frequently, if an exhibition-quality breeder finds a bird of a different breed that they think will improve characteristics in their main breed line, that person will cross in the "outside" bird, and then carefully choose how to breed the offspring.
• Until genetics sufficiently re-stabilize after the cross (which might take a few generations), it may be that only some of the offspring will qualify as being the main breed of chicken. However, this careful cross-breeding will result in many descendants that are classed as the original main breed, though none are purebred.

A chicken's individual characteristics -- not its ancestors -- officially determine its breed.


A chicken or waterfowl is officially classified as a certain breed ONLY by examining whether it matches a standardized description.

• The American Poultry Association (APA) and American Bantam Association (ABA) are the main official breed-determining organizations in the U.S. They maintain "Standard of Perfection" books that list the required characteristics for each breed that they oversee. There are other smaller breed-specific organizations that also create their own "Standard" descriptions. If an individual bird fits a Standard breed description, the bird qualifies as that breed within the organization's authority, whether the bird's parents did or not.

• "Official" breed classification is only really important if you are showing birds, selling birds as definitely being a particular breed, claiming birds are "true" or "show-quality" members of a breed, or trying to help preserve a particular breed by sustaining a correct breeding pool.

Official breed requirements include specific coloring.

• Each recognized breed description includes one or more "varieties" of that breed. The "variety" subcategories include genetically consistent color patterns.

• Even if a particular bird's other characteristics match a breed description, if its coloring (feathers, skin, beak, eyes, feet and leg shanks) does not sufficiently match a single one of the "Standard" listed varieties, the chicken does not qualify as a member of that breed.
  • Exception: At some poultry shows, a bird may be considered an "All Other Varieties" member of a breed, if it has an intergenerationally consistent color pattern that is being developed to get recognized for a new variety.

Appropriate genetic crossing is needed for reliable breed production.

• Even if a rooster and a hen both meet Standard requirements, if their genes are not fully harmonious, they will produce "wildcard" chicks. (ie. It won't be predictable for their chicks to fit the qualifications for a particular breed.)
  • If the parents are from two different color varieties of a breed, they are particularly likely to have disqualified chicks.
  • • Exception: Some color crossings harmonize genetically to always produce predictable color results. Crosses of Black, Splash and Blue (not White) chickens will result in chicks fitting into one of the three colors. Crosses of Wheaten, Splash Wheaten and Blue Wheaten (not plain Blue) work similarly.
  • An example of a type of crossing quite likely to result in many qualified chicks would be a "bantam" (miniature-size) chicken crossed with a small "large fowl" chicken (sometimes confusingly called a "standard chicken") of the same breed.
• Chicks from parents with compatible genetics that are likely to produce offspring that meets "Standard of Perfection" requirements are more correctly called "Standard-bred chicks", rather than "purebred chicks."

General breed classification varies between people.

• Outside of official standards, different people have different ideas of how certain breeds look. They will class a bird as a member of a particular breed if its or its parents' characteristics match their impression of that breed.
• This works comfortably as long as people claim birds to be "true" or "show-quality" chickens of a particular breed ONLY if they meet the Standard requirements. Otherwise, buyers become defrauded when birds are disqualified at official poultry shows, and also when chicks from the birds are turned down by informed potential buyers.
  • Possible alternate descriptions that could be used for some non-Standard birds could be "quality", "traditional", "well-bred" or "classic-type".
  • A possible ethical description for "Wildcard" chicks might be: "Chicks are from true [Variety] & [Variety] matings of true [Breed] parents. Chicks will mostly have general breed characteristics, though some will not meet every official requirement."
• Official poultry show judges become certified by passing tests about appropriate breed Standards. However, it is not uncommon for a judge to make a mistake and miscategorize a bird. Some birds that are often mistaken by judges are those entered as Ameraucanas, and birds whose coloring does not completely match a particular variety's.
  • At some county fairs or in some youth classes, judges may also be knowingly lenient about Standard guidelines.