Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[tigercreek]

It's more complicated than that. I think there are two things being considered.

First, a blue might (does???) carry a pattern gene (genes?) for lacing independent of the blue genes. Someone wanting to breed blacks doesn't want that pattern showing up. I think it can be ever so slightly noticeable on a black bird.

Secondly there is the issue of the base color. From what I understand, the best blues are silver based while the best blacks are gold based. So, if you want the best blacks, you want gold-based blacks, which might not be coming from a blue breeding program.

Now, here's where I can't get answers: How can you tell a bird is gold based or silver based?

I believe--and those in the know, please chime in because I'm just a rookie looking for answers--most Ameraucanas are gold based.

I've asked the same questions in the other breed (Cochins) that I'm working with. I can't get any good explanations there either. Maybe nobody knows. Maybe you can't tell without doing genetic testing.

The blacks I bought from a top exhibitor came from blue breeding since they came from pens that blues and/or splashes came out of.

A good discussion thread on this subject.... http://ameraucana.org/forum/index.php?topic=1733.0

 

[MrsBachbach]

Can someone explain what pure black, no blue means?  Does that mean blacks from black to black breeding for how many generations?   I have three beautiful black hens, but no black cockerel.  I only have blue cockerels.  What does that mean for their offspring?  Do I need to obtain a black cockerel for breeding blacks?

This is a newbie to Ameraucana question.  In all my reading, I have not seen an explanation.

No you don't. You can breed black to blue. Some people just prefer a blue x blue mating or a black x black mating, reason being they don't want offspring carrying silver when they should be carrying gold or vice versa. Some may carry both gold and silver. Now if a breeder knows what their bird is carrying, I can see the reason behind this. Better blacks are based on gold and better blues on silver. But I haven't seen it explained how you can tell if your birds carry gold or silver or both.
Some breeders say they have produced the best blues by mating black x splash. I have seen that too. I have a black right now from a blue x blue mating that I'm going to try with splash this year and see what kind of blues I get. Many will tell you that the gold gene is responsible for the nice green sheen on blacks, but I have read from a university study that it isn't so much the gold gene as it is the structure of the feather. Look at a hummingbird. It is full of irridescent colors, green and purple included. Is it carrying both gold and silver or is it more likely the way the feathers are structured to collect and reflect the light? Idk, but I tend to believe feather structure plays more of a role. Heck, I've even seen blacks with a nice green back and then a little purple in the tail. Is it because they carry both gold and silver and the silver is only expressing in the tail or is it more likely the feathers are structured a bit different back there?
Now, having said all that, I do think you can produce better blacks(show quality) by mating black to black. However if all you have is blue and black, mate them, then keep the best black cockeral you may get and use him with your blacks in the future.

 

[MrsBachbach]

No, blue ameraucanas do not carry any pattern genes.  This is why they have no lacing and just edging.

From my experience and, it is not in any way scientific:

A black bird based on gold will have black legs. 

A black bird based on silver will have blue slate legs.


I have seen no difference in the green sheen in black birds if they are based on silver or gold. 

It is preferred to have blues based on silver to prevent the rusty brown color when the feathers get old.

That is an interesting observation, but is it true? This is what I have observed. All my hens, blues included, get to free range when I am done penning them up during breeding. After a year old, they do get rusty, even my blacks tend to look rusty especially around the muffs. But, I have never seen this in the males, unless, they also are free ranging. I usually only have one male out and this year didn't let any out. All the males are under roofs. The older males look just as good as the younger males. They don't have rusty or yellow worn feathers. My thoughts on the rusty feathers are is this because of year round exposure to sunlight and elements?
I know a breeder who breeds beautiful white plymouth rocks. They told me they never expose them to sunlight because the sun is what yellows the feathers.
Just a possibility that I thought I would share. I've never kept a blue or black female penned out of sunlight to see if it indeed would make a difference. Maybe someone has?

 

[JackieandChicks]

So much to learn here...first I want to thank all that respond to my posts.
A few months ago I posted my John Blehm chicks that were his "culls" for whatever reason. Here they are half grown roos They are in the molt stage, but I am pretty happy with them so far. The lavender does not have any red leakage...he's been dust bathing in the horse's sawdust, but I included a shot from the rear to show his colors.
The black guy....




My lavender guy....





I know they are still growing and may not be "best in show" types but I'm still happy with them to use for starting out my flock. I would like to know your opinions - I know what I think are their faults and want to see if my eye is learning...Thanks!

 

[MrsBachbach]

So much to learn here...first I want to thank all that respond to my posts. A few months ago I posted my John Blehm chicks that were his "culls" for whatever reason. Here they are half grown roos They are in the molt stage, but I am pretty happy with them so far. The lavender does not have any red leakage...he's been dust bathing in the horse's sawdust, but I included a shot from the rear to show his colors. The black guy.... My lavender guy.... I know they are still growing and may not be "best in show" types but I'm still happy with them to use for starting out my flock. I would like to know your opinions - I know what I think are their faults and want to see if my eye is learning...Thanks!

When culling chicks about the only things you can look for at that age are muffs/beards and shank/skin color, and maybe small chicks. Once in awhile you can see an odd color in down, but doesn't happen often. Most obvious is muffs/beards in those birds (unless the hens have been at them) and lavendar is carrying tail low.

 

[JackieandChicks]

I think it's a hen-pecked thing, and he's going through a molt. Here are the two when I got them (I sold the white one).





I agree with tail set...I have another potential roo growing out who seems to have a better tail set (from another breeder not sure of the lines) but I'll bet it turns into a pullet How hard is it to breed better tail set? Thanks!

 

[Euarto Gullible]

Somebody who breeds BBS please tell me. Is this pullet Black or Blue?

 

[CCCCCCCCHICKENS]

Somebody who breeds BBS please tell me. Is this pullet Black or Blue?

Blue

 

[Euarto Gullible]

Blue

Is a Blue this dark undesirable then? Does this pullet have any breeding value?

 

[CCCCCCCCHICKENS]

Is a Blue this dark undesirable then?  Does this pullet have any breeding value?

When it comes to blue, the shade is on personal preferences. Dark or light. I personally like darker blues. I think she looks beautiful. I would have to handle her in person to be able to tell I I would use her for breeding or not. She looks nice, but she is kind f hunched down in this picture. I can't see tail angle and other things, but I do see things I like. She also looks young , so she still has time to improve.