Blue x Black = Black??

[Rancho Bravo]

I have bred a blue hen (orpington) to a black rooster (Jersey Giant) and hatched out 7 chicks thus far, all of which have been jet black.

I know my sample size is small as of now but I'm just wondering if there is something I don't know about that would cause a cross like this to produce 100% black chicks or if I've just been unlucky so far. What do you all think?

The hen looks like this. She has very dark hackles and dark, fairly thick lacing:


The rooster looks like this. Pure black Jersey Giant with green sheen:

 

[dheltzel]

Looking that the hen, she appears to be BBS blue, and that will produce 50% blue offspring when bred to black. While that statistical chances of all black chicks from that cross is small (less than 2%), it still happens (must happen sometimes, otherwise the chance would be 0, right?).

The other possibility is that your hen is Self-blue (aka Lavender). In that case, unless the male is split for lavender, all the chicks will be black, but split for lavender.

I'd say, keep hatching more chicks. Having to find out the genetics in your birds sounds like a great excuse to hatch more.

 

[Rancho Bravo]

What is "BBS"?

The lavender thought also crossed my mind, but she is so dark! Are lavenders sometimes that dark?

I need no excuses to keep hatching chicks! It's what I live for!

 

[dheltzel]

Sorry for the "coded message". BBS is Black/Blue/Splash, sometimes referred to as "Andalusian blue", after the blue andalusian breed where it originated (or at least became popular). That gene is "partially dominant" (you can research that term if you want a deep understanding). It means that if the gene is present, it will always be visible in the bird, so a black bird has no BBS blue gene, guaranteed. But a black bird could be hiding a gene for lavender, since that blue gene is a true recessive. You can never be sure that a black bird is not carrying lavender, so if a blue bird ever "pops up" in a group of all black birds, it must be the recessive gene (Lav). Lavender is generally much rarer (though getting very popular, so that statement is less true all the time).

The hen pictures sure looks BBS blue to me, so I'm fairly certain that the odds have just been against you and you will see blue eventually. Another possibility is that the chromosome carrying the copy of blue in the hen might also be carrying some other bad gene and maybe it's getting paired with bad genes from the cock and those eggs are not hatching well. I have no idea what that "bad gene" might be, it's just a theory to explain the highly skewed results you are seeing. That would have more credibility if you are getting a poor hatch rate, then all your blue chicks may be dying before hatch.

Statistically, if you have 20 - 30, all black chicks, then you are clearly seeing something odd. So, tell your family you must hatch at least that many "for the sake of science", LOL.

 

[keesmom]

Are you positive all the chicks are black? The shade of blue can range from light to almost black. Back when I had blues I found I always got dark blue from blue x black breedings. My experience is limited though.

 

[draye]

I have bred a blue hen (orpington) to a black rooster (Jersey Giant) and hatched out 7 chicks thus far, all of which have been jet black.

I know my sample size is small as of now but I'm just wondering if there is something I don't know about that would cause a cross like this to produce 100% black chicks or if I've just been unlucky so far. What do you all think?

The hen looks like this. She has very dark hackles and dark, fairly thick lacing:


The rooster looks like this. Pure black Jersey Giant with green sheen:

That percentae of 50% blue-50% Black can very from hatch to hatch. You only hatched 7 chicks, next time you may get all blues or mostly blue with a few black or even a possibilty of a splash.
BTW: Your hen is not Lavender (self blue).

Edited to fix misstatement: I was thiniking Blue to Blue when I orginally posted.

 

[Rancho Bravo]

That percentae of 50% blue-25% Black and 25% splash can very from hatch to hatch. You only hatched 7 chicks, next time you may get all blues or mostly blue with a few black or even a possibilty of a splash.
BTW: Your hen is not Lavender (self blue).

How would a splash be produced from a Blue x Black cross? How can you be sure the hen is not Lav?

 

[Rancho Bravo]

Are you positive all the chicks are black? The shade of blue can range from light to almost black. Back when I had blues I found I always got dark blue from blue x black breedings. My experience is limited though.

This is definitely a possibility - that there are blue chicks that are very dark and appear to be black. I guess I'll know when they feather in. Right now they all look jet black and are indistinguishable from the pure black jersey chicks.

 

[Rancho Bravo]

BBS is Black/Blue/Splash...

I'm fairly certain that the odds have just been against you and you will see blue eventually.

Another possibility is that the chromosome carrying the copy of blue in the hen might also be carrying some other bad gene and maybe it's getting paired with bad genes from the cock and those eggs are not hatching well. I have no idea what that "bad gene" might be, it's just a theory to explain the highly skewed results you are seeing. That would have more credibility if you are getting a poor hatch rate, then all your blue chicks may be dying before hatch.

Statistically, if you have 20 - 30, all black chicks, then you are clearly seeing something odd. So, tell your family you must hatch at least that many "for the sake of science", LOL.

Thank you for clearing up the BBS question! I'm familiar with the genetics, just not the abbreviations yet!

I've had a pretty good hatch rate. Out of 8 eggs I got 7 hatched chicks and 1 infertile egg. I have more due to hatch pretty soon, so we'll see. There better be some blues this time!!

At this point I think I've been unlucky getting all blacks or possibly I have some very, very dark blues that look black. Was just wondering if maybe something else strange was going on genetically that I wasn't aware of.

 

[dheltzel]

How would a splash be produced from a Blue x Black cross? How can you be sure the hen is not Lav?

You are correct, you can never get splash from black x blue. draye was thinking blue x blue.

A BBS blue bird can carry lavender and not express it. Really any bird can carry lavender and not express it, but both lavender and BBS blue only affect the black parts of the plumage. White leghorns, for ex, could have all the genes for either lavender or BBS blue, but you will never know until you breed to a black-based bird, and even then probably not until the F2's.

I think I just muddied the water even more . . .