BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Beer can]

I quit the fermented feed for the winter, too cold... Just started back up and actually added to the start, my homemade sauerkraut, bout a half gallon to the 5gal batch, started working quick. Birds are gobbling it.

 

[Beer can]

I am not that sure that this is the right topic to post this but I'm certain many of you do have some serious experience with this and so I'd like to ask something about crossbreeding .


If you have a sussex , they are very well used as meatbirds as in eggs , and known for their big breasts , right ? How can I get that one crossed to maintain the big breast or better yet enlarge it and also make it a very good layer ??

I mean what breed can I use and is it the female or the male that has to be a sussex ??

Anyone ?

p.s; forgive me if this post is not in its place , couldn't really find another topic and in the ones about breeding you need more experience , which I do NOT own :s
ty...

X2+ on the naked neck addition.
Actually lots, tons, of scientific studies done on the naked neck crosses in meat birds specifically in hotter climates less feed and better growth, less stress.
While I'm not in a hot climate myself, I/ we here, don't typically grow out any animals during cold weather. Typically grow out when it's hot in the summer so naked necks are a benefit I guess. And they've done just fine here, laying eggs in zero F temps, and no frostbite. Tough hardy birds for all extremes.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Speaking of Naked Necks, I just did the 7 week weigh-in for the S&G broiler-type NNs, and thought I'd share the data here. I can't recall if I posted on this thread, but just in case - these chicks had a very rough shipping experience on their way to me, and out of 25, one was DOA, and 8 more died in the following 4 days. Of those that survived, three were seriously small - two of those (a girl and a boy) began to catch up, one never did, and was finally culled when he got viciously attacked by the big boys in his brooder (who were 48 oz to his 18 oz) - he is not on the graph. So, all that to say, there was some variability in the start for these birds, and I don't know what lasting effect there will be. But they are pretty impressive even with all of that. As you can see, the biggest are approaching 4 pounds at 7 weeks, and will likely be well on their way to 5 pounds at 8 weeks. There are also some pretty big girls, one of whom (57) actually started as a VERY large chick, and has been the most friendly, sweet and loving of all of them.

Data:



Chart - Boys are orange, girls are purple, and for reference Tank (the very large boy from a previous cohort) is in blue. You can see in particular at the bottom one of the boys (71) really catching up. I expect the males and females to segregate by weight soon.


- Ant Farm

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

S&G Boys: (Comb development is lagging in some - but they're so big, I have to keep reminding myself they are only 7 weeks old!)


Largest boy (#64):











This one was severely stunted, less than 3 oz at 2 weeks, and has really been catching up (#71):

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

S&G girls:


Largest (and sweetest) girl, Heinz 57:







(I'm worried this one will somehow end up being a late boy):




And here's my sweetie snuggling with me on the brooder sill:


(And before you ask - yes, they need to go outside. I'm building grow out tractors as fast as I can.

)

- Ant Farm

 

[bnjrob]

I am not that sure that this is the right topic to post this but I'm certain many of you do have some serious experience with this and so I'd like to ask something about crossbreeding .

If you have a sussex , they are very well used as meatbirds as in eggs , and known for their big breasts , right ? How can I get that one crossed to maintain the big breast or better yet enlarge it and also make it a very good layer ??
I mean what breed can I use and is it the female or the male that has to be a sussex ??
Anyone ?

p.s; forgive me if this post is not in its place , couldn't really find another topic and in the ones about breeding you need more experience , which I do NOT own :s
ty...

It isn't as much about choosing a breed to cross with it, it's about consistently selecting breeders who have the characteristics that you want. People often think they have to crossbreed to get the traits they want when that usually isn't the case. If your birds don't have what you want, then either you chose the wrong breed, you have unrealistic expectations for the breed you do own, or the birds have not been selected for those traits even if their breed is known for a particular characteristic. You can take a Sussex and any other breed you want to cross them with, but if you don't consistently select breeders every single year who have the traits you want, you're still not going to get what you are looking for.

You also have to look at what your ideas of a big breast and very good layer is. Those are not really quantifiable traits because everyone has their own idea of what is a big enough breast and what is a very good layer. And generally *very good layers* are not going to have a lot of meat on them, breast or otherwise. The best layers are the smaller birds that put all their energy towards laying - think Leghorns. And how big of a breast are you thinking about? Big breasted birds have a harder time mating successfully. You have to look at what you really are wanting and balance your expectations accordingly, along with making the correct breeding selection choices.

I raise Javas. They are a dual purpose bird. In their heyday around the turn of the 20th century, they were known for their meat. But breeders also said they were good layers at the time, although I still have not found anything that gave actual numbers of how many eggs they were getting from the Javas of that time period. With today's Javas, you can lean them either toward meat/dual purpose use, and they decrease the amount of eggs they lay, or you can lean them towards eggs, but you're not going to get as much meat on them.

I have some Javas we bought that were bred for their eggs. They lay nearly every day and the eggs tend to be extra large. But they don't have much meat on them so we killed the cocks years ago and we are slowly phasing out the hens as well, because we want the meat on them and they just don't have what we want. They are part of our free range flock that is exposed to predators but they can run all over and eat bugs for us. It's not worth it to raise a bunch of birds that have scrawny carcasses unless all I wanted was a lot of eggs.

We have other bloodlines that are more in line with our desires, so they are used for breeding and we breed them to be dual purpose. But for them to grow a large, sturdy skeleton and put on the muscle meat, they don't lay every day. They lay every other day, some every few days. But that's ok for us because it still provides us with plenty of eggs. We don't need a bird that cranks out an egg every day for 51 weeks out of a year. And every year we select breeders and improving the breast and carcass weight is something we've worked on. And we have made improvements. But we still have to keep selecting for those traits, otherwise they will start to decrease in quality and amount again. We examine our birds, weigh them, feel them, look at them from all angles, and that helps us to make our breeding choices. We have to balance the good and bad traits of a cock and the females we choose for him to mate with.

The more traits that you demand your birds have, the more difficult it is to get all of those traits in one bird package. And the longer it takes to make improvements in the traits. It's a balancing act to decide which traits are higher priority than others, so that you can make your breeding choices. But it can be done. You need to set down specific goals that you want your birds to reach, and determine which are the most important and which ones are not as important. When people do this, they often find that either the breed they have chosen is wrong for them or the birds they obtained were not bred for those traits. The important thing is for you is to have realistic expectations of your birds. Not only what the breed can do, but also what traits the particular bloodline was bred for. Once you have the birds you are going to use, then you have to consistently pay attention to your mating selections to make sure you are selecting for the traits you want the most.

Doesn't matter if you use one breed or crossbreed any number of birds, if you have unrealistic expectations and you fail to select for the traits that you want to have in your birds, you won't get what you want.

 

[lpatelski]

Hope you all don't mind if I lurk here and follow along. Quite interested in learning from you all.

Lurk on BantyChooks! Ask any question you dare...

 

[lpatelski]

Just read a scientific on study online that says feather picking can be eased by providing probiotics to the chicks
. because it has good protein in it and feathers are protein.

Karen

I believe feathers have protein, but it is unuseable/edible. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it the bloody base of the new growth feathers they are going for mostly?

 

[DesertChic]

I believe feathers have protein, but it is unuseable/edible. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it the bloody base of the new growth feathers they are going for mostly?

Yep

 

[DesertChic]

I'm now up to three broody hens. It's as if a switch was flipped and all three decided at the same time to go broody. Silly girls.