BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

I am sure this has been posted before.. but incase anyone is interested, heritage birds comparison of weights and food consumption.. your milage may differ.
from: https://projects.sare.org/project-reports/fnc12-866/
DATA
I have included multiple charts with the following data, but here it is in a simple text format. I have ordered data within the following sections based simply on the order of the shelters on pasture, not from highest-to-lowest or lowest-to-highest. This is for ease of comparison.

Total feed consumption per bird, by breed:
– Dominique – 22.808 lb.
– White Plymouth Rock – 24.385 lb.
– Naked Neck – 24.137 lb.
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 26.487 lb.
– Speckled Sussex – 20.821 lb.
– New Hampshire Red – 24.302 lb.
– Delaware – 23.110 lb.
– AVERAGE – 23.721 lb.

Average live weight per bird at processing (18 weeks 4 days), by breed:
– Dominique – 4.388 lb.
– White Plymouth Rock – 5.010 lb.
– Naked Neck – 4.815 lb.
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 4.686 lb.
– Speckled Sussex – 4.103 lb.
– New Hampshire Red – 5.238 lb.
– Delaware – 4.801 lb.
– AVERAGE – 4.720 lb.

Average dressed weight per bird, by breed:
– Dominique – 2.98 lb.
– White Plymouth Rock – 3.40 lb.
– Naked Neck – 3.38 lb.
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 3.17 lb.
– Speckled Sussex – 2.85 lb.
– New Hampshire Red – 3.29 lb.
– Delaware – 3.03 lb.
– AVERAGE – 3.16 lb.

Dressing percentage rate, by breed:
– Dominique – 67.86%
– White Plymouth Rock – 67.84%
– Naked Neck – 70.27%
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 67.74%
– Speckled Sussex – 69.52%
– New Hampshire Red – 62.87%
– Delaware – 63.02%
– AVERAGE – 67.02%

Feed efficiency rates based on live weight (lb. feed per lb. gain), by breed:
– Dominique – 5.20
– White Plymouth Rock – 4.87
– Naked Neck – 5.01
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 5.64
– Speckled Sussex – 5.08
– New Hampshire Red – 4.64
– Delaware – 4.81
– AVERAGE – 5.02

Feed efficiency rates based on dressed weight (lb. feed per lb. carcass), by breed:
– Dominique – 7.66
– White Plymouth Rock – 7.17
– Naked Neck – 7.13
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – 8.34
– Speckled Sussex – 7.30
– New Hampshire Red – 7.38
– Delaware – 7.64
– AVERAGE – 7.49

Cost of production per lb. dressed weight, by breed*:
– Dominique – $4.08
– White Plymouth Rock – $3.71
– Naked Neck – $3.73
– Silver-Laced Wyandotte – $4.21
– Speckled Sussex – $4.01
– New Hampshire Red – $3.82
– Delaware – $4.05
– AVERAGE – $3.90
* These cost figures are to be used for reference only, and are not intended to be authoritative or even typical. Clearly one’s own enterprise costs will vary largely depending on a number of factors. Farmers should input their own relevant costs, using the breed-specific data above, to best determine their own potential outcomes. My own production costs are based on the following:
– cost per chick of between $1.34 and $1.45 (depending on breed);
– feed cost to butcher date at $0.365/lb. for bagged non-GMO feed;
– processing equipment rental cost of $75.00 for one day;
– bags, clips, and labels at $0.371 per bird;
– mileage to pick up chicks from the hatchery, pick up feed, and pick up and return processing equipment;
– and approximate shelter depreciation cost of $1.00 per bird.

WOW! That is a gold mine of information. Thank you so much for sharing!
 
@lpatelski

I'm thrilled to say that the one hen that I hatched from 'your' hatching eggs has made it through the summer far better than I ever expect her too, and she's still part of my future breeding plans. Clara Belle has been surprisingly hardy and resilient, especially after I finally figured out that she'd turned broody and that's why she'd stopped laying. Right now I'm a bit overwhelmed by the number of birds here, but once the weather cools and I get some more culling done, I plan on finally making her a mama. :)
 
Well, as you know it was a mostly unsuccessful hatching year here. Had to guess and choose eggs from mixed flock, hoping for purebred Light Sussex (LS). Got a lot of Crossbreds , plus imperfectly marked LS and 4 very nice pure Light Sussex.
So this afternoon I go out to check their water and 13 yr. Old smooth collie girl "Punkin" is with me. I never let her in with the birds because she has a higher prey drive. So I am checking the water and one of my SQ pullets flies right past me and out of the coop!! There are a slew of places near by where traffic can kill this bird, forest to hide in, creek to drown in, oh no!
I try and keep it beside the garage so I can catch it but the pullet alludes me, making its way around the garage towards the open lawn. Once there, I simply won't catch it.
Then I notice Punkin trailing her behind me. Well if the bird gets to the lawn, I'll never catch her so I thought I'd let Punkin have a go at it. I yelled, "Get it Punkin, get it! Get it! " (She knows that means to get whatever the issue is). She went into full herding mode. Herded the bird along the side of the garage until she had it in a corner of a doorway. "Hold it Punkin, get it!". She grabbed that bird and gently held it down like the finest soft mouthed retriever. When she saw me reach to get the bird, she let go. The bird stood up, no harm done, and I grabbed it.
Punkin got lots of hugs tonlght.
Karen
 
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I am getting frustrated. I can't seem to find a buyer for these birds .I spent so much time raising them. I don't understand why people still want chicks this late in the year. it's too late to raise chicks in any place where there's going to be snow and they're not going to be good winter layers. anyway, I got these nice started pullets & roosters. never been sick . can I sell them? really, I'm only asking $5 a piece. cost me a lot more than that to raise them. nice light Sussex and Crossbreds. good stock for an egg/meat flock. I see all these people selling their birds and I just don't get it.
I just can't afford to keep raising chickens if I can't sell at least some of my excess.
Karen
 
Ugh, I feel your pain. People are obsessed with chicks. Part of it is the *baby animal* appeal and started birds aren't *cute*. Then too they want chicks because chicks are usually sold cheaper than started poultry. People also want pretty feathers that sound exciting and unusual ( I hear Greenfire is at it again with some new birds). They'd rather buy from someone that barnyard breeds 6 different types of birds and have turned into nothing but mutts, because the barnyard breeder makes their birds sound unique and exciting. A pretty feather duster or a bird that lays weird colored eggs is more important to the masses than a seriously bred production/SOP bird.

Maybe you're selling them too cheap so people don't want them because they think something is wrong with them. One time I had somebody flake out on picking up the birds that I held for them, so I advertised on Craigslist for $10/pullet just to get rid of them. People thought that was too cheap and wondered what was wrong with them. One guy thought I was liquidating my stock so he was willing to buy them in order to keep them from being lost to the masses, he knew Javas were rare, but once he found out I was just trying to get rid of some in a hurry, he didn't want them otherwise. I see online ads for birds in my area that are going for $20-50 each, more than that for mutt turkeys, and by their photos they are obvious hatchery stock not bred for anything except flashy feather and egg color. And people are snatching them up. The word *rare* in an ad gets people's attention because they like the idea of buying something nobody else has.

I took my name off the couple of breeder lists I was on and have refused to sell any birds for a while now. The bad experiences with buyers/potential buyers has been too much of a hassle. Have had more bad experiences than good in my dealings with buyers/potential buyers. I've never been ugly to these people and I've tried to help them with contact info of people that might be able to meet their desires. Or I've tried to steer them away from Javas altogether because Javas don't meet most peoples' desires or needs because of their unrealistic expectations - but it's left a bad taste in my mouth for selling birds. When my husband and I die, our work in preserving this breed will likely die as well, but I can't compete with hatcheries and the usual online seller with the old fashioned breed that I have while breeding them to their SOP and production potential. People are more concerned about whether you've fed your birds antibiotics and they want them to have eaten *vegetarian* organic, nonGMO feed, than whether you've spent time to breed them to reach a specific goal. It's easier just to eat my non breeder birds than to mess with selling.
 
@bnjrob YES! Exactly this! I ran into this when I was breeding Quarter Horses. Give the masses color, pretty, more flash than substance. But one in a few hundred will appreciate and understand what YOU are doing. Maybe one or two in a thousand will have what it takes to continue your work. Sadly, the odds are against you connecting with that rare individual. But it CAN happen. You just have to accept that and work on bettering your odds.

Meantime, it doesn't hurt to have a "side hustle" aimed at those masses and to help finance your "passion project". Movie actors and producers, musicians, architects, to name a few, do this.

I hope you can connect with that rare individual that appreciates what you do, and can take on the mantle to carry it forward. I think we all want to leave some form of legacy, no matter the size or form it takes.
 
Well I am far away or I would buy a few pullers... chicks are cute and fun but not a make or break deal for me.

A lot of people don't get the work that goes into SQ or breeding for any long term goal even if it is a project for fun. I just have EEs but I get the work required to breed for a goal.

Most folks can't see past their preconceptions about food, medications, vaccine beliefs, misunderstanding of what a gmo is versus cross breeding, breeding biases of hybrid versus purebred and more. Some folks just want cool. I think there are lots of cool breeds but if cross breeding I would want a clear goal for end results after 10 generations for a set group of genetic traits not just what ever. Good egg and meat production would be part of those goals if I started improving my EEs... other goals would include feather type, comb type, eye color, and more. Goals be important when breeding and folks don't get that I think.
 
@bnjrob YES! Exactly this! I ran into this when I was breeding Quarter Horses. Give the masses color, pretty, more flash than substance. But one in a few hundred will appreciate and understand what YOU are doing. Maybe one or two in a thousand will have what it takes to continue your work. Sadly, the odds are against you connecting with that rare individual. But it CAN happen. You just have to accept that and work on bettering your odds.

Meantime, it doesn't hurt to have a "side hustle" aimed at those masses and to help finance your "passion project". Movie actors and producers, musicians, architects, to name a few, do this.

I hope you can connect with that rare individual that appreciates what you do, and can take on the mantle to carry it forward. I think we all want to leave some form of legacy, no matter the size or form it takes.

Sadly so far I haven't found anybody that is serious enough to have the patience to breed these birds. In fact, some of the worst offenders have been people who swore up and down to me that they had been searching for years to find Javas, that they desperately wanted to save them from another close call with extinction, and they would do anything to learn about them and raise them. People who were gung ho about the breed just 5 years ago have pretty much disappeared. They pop up now and then online, but they aren't seriously breeding. They sell bird they hatch and backyard pet keepers love their birds, but they aren't being bred for their intended purpose and they get bent out of shape when they show photos of their birds and you make a comment other than "oh that bird is beautiful". God forbid you ask them about what the carcass weighed at what age or try to discuss why their SOP appearance actually is part of the meat production potential. And I've even seen in the group for the non-standard colored Javas that interest has waned there as well.

Old fashioned things, including old fashioned poultry, are really a fad for most people. I can tell when a new magazine article has come out about my breed, because then I'll get people saying certain things, and the same things as the other folks, about the breed, and the article gets them all fired up - but they lose interest quickly. And I hear this same story about other breeds as well, from serious poultry breeders. Can't compete with the hype out there and the fact that more people just want a pretty pet that lays eggs because it is a novelty. But that's ok. We started raising birds to feed ourselves, and the historical preservation aspect was just a bonus. We do a lot of old fashioned things in our daily life that most people just play at. They don't have enough interest in most things to learn about them beyond the basics, and if they can't get attention for the things they do, then they stop doing them. It's just life in the modern world. Tech is in and old fashioned things that require effort and most especially manual labor and getting dirty just aren't popular. I find it less frustrating to just eat our birds and discuss homesteading topics with like minded folks than worry about whether or not I will ever find someone that is interested in taking my breeding project up when I'm dead. :)
 
When I get the horses out to my farm, first step will be to get the quail, I have wanted them for a few years now, but then I will build a fairly beefy tractor and I would love to find some started pullets to stock it with. My idea is to move the tractor daily and to let the hens mow the edge of the fenceline so that they don't tear up the grass that the horses will eat, but they can help keep the weeds off the fence. I may even set it up with hot wire around the top so you just hook it to the fence that it's sitting next to once it's parked for the night so the horses don't mess with it...
 

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