Can you tell which chicks are Barred Rock vs Barred Rock-ISA Brown crosses?

[Pullety]

These chicks were hatched out of eggs from a pen of both Barred Rock and ISA Brown hens under a Barred Rock rooster. Can you tell which are pure and which are crosses?

Sorry for the poor picture quality. These guys are wiggly.

And I’m also sorry that chick 1 and chick 2 pics are mixed together. I can’t seem to fix it.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Not at this stage. A barred rooster over a red-based hen (your ISA Brown) will produced black chicks with a white head dot, 100%, both sexes. If you had reversed that, ISA roo over a barred hen, you would have sex linked chicks with black chicks no head dots being the ISA-barred cross. The boys would have still looked similar.

You'll have to wait for them to grow out. The ISA-barred cross will have some red bleed through usually at the hackles.

But until then, they will look pretty similar.

LofMc

 

[Pullety]

Not at this stage. A barred rooster over a red-based hen (your ISA Brown) will produced black chicks with a white head dot, 100%, both sexes. If you had reversed that, ISA roo over a barred hen, you would have sex linked chicks with black chicks no head dots being the ISA-barred cross. The boys would have still looked similar.

You'll have to wait for them to grow out. The ISA-barred cross will have some red bleed through usually at the hackles.

But until then, they will look pretty similar.

LofMc

Okay; that’s what I needed to know. Thank you!

 

[JedJackson]

I think those are all pure barred rocks. ISA browns have the dominant white gene, which would block expression of black pigment in the chicks.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I think those are all pure barred rocks. ISA browns have the dominant white gene, which would block expression of black pigment in the chicks.

That can't be accurate. If ISA Browns had the dominant white gene, wouldn't they be white? (Or is white dominant only over black?) They are red-brown based with white trim. At most, if they had 1 dominant white gene, they would pass it down 50% of the time and you'd get 50% black and 50% white.

I have read that white and black are co-dominant, so if you breed a white bird to a black bird, you get black and white.

LofMc

 

[Pullety]

That can't be accurate. If ISA Browns had the dominant white gene, wouldn't they be white? (Or is white dominant only over black?) They are red-brown based with white trim. At most, if they had 1 dominant white gene, they would pass it down 50% of the time and you'd get 50% black and 50% white.

I have read that white and black are co-dominant, so if you breed a white bird to a black bird, you get black and white.

LofMc

Two are white. I didn’t include pictures of them because I know they’re crosses.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I did some research into the ISA Brown, and it definitely appears it *is* based on dominant white. (I would have argued silver like most red sex linked hybrids, which addresses only red suppression, and is over ruled by black, but I would have been wrong).

Dominant white is dominant over black (I again would have argued that it was co-dominant with black, and been wrong).

However with a dominant gene, you only need 1 gene to present the dominance. I've no idea if the ISA's are 2 or 1 gene dominant. As they are a hybrid, I suspect 1 gene dominant white in *most* of them? With 1 gene present (assuming), you will get 50% passed along. So progeny are 50% white dominant and 50% non-white dominant.

So yellow down chicks will be ISA white dominant hybrids with the barred. However if the ISA has only 1 white dominant gene, 50% of the chicks will be black with a white head dot. Your birds will all be barred, as the barring passes down 100% from a pure Barred Rock rooster, however you won't be able to see the barring due to the white dominance in those who receive that gene...or I find you can get "ghost barring" which is very faint greyish barring lines...which is kind of cool.

Interesting...I had no idea ISA was white dominant, and it gave me a chance to study further white dominant vs. white recessive and silver (which I understand better).

LofMc

 

[NatJ]

These chicks were hatched out of eggs from a pen of both Barred Rock and ISA Brown hens under a Barred Rock rooster. Can you tell which are pure and which are crosses?

Two are white. I didn’t include pictures of them because I know they’re crosses.

You are right that the white ones are crosses.

When the chicks grow their feathers, you should be able to identify any pure Barred Rocks that are MALE, because they will have more white than the females. That's because they get two copies of the barring gene (from their mother and their father), instead of just one copy (any female chicks, along with sons of the ISA Brown hens.)

When they get old enough to recognize males by their combs, you should be able to tell which males are mixes (dark barred chicks that are male).

For sorting out the daughters, I agree with @Lady of McCamley that the ones with an ISA Brown mother should have some red leakage when they get older. For females, I would especially look at the breast area (like where Black Sexlink hens get the red leakage.)

That can't be accurate. If ISA Browns had the dominant white gene, wouldn't they be white? (Or is white dominant only over black?) They are red-brown based with white trim. At most, if they had 1 dominant white gene, they would pass it down 50% of the time and you'd get 50% black and 50% white.

I have read that white and black are co-dominant, so if you breed a white bird to a black bird, you get black and white.

LofMc

I did some research into the ISA Brown, and it definitely appears it *is* based on dominant white. (I would have argued silver like most red sex linked hybrids, which addresses only red suppression, and is over ruled by black, but I would have been wrong).

Dominant white is dominant over black (I again would have argued that it was co-dominant with black, and been wrong).

However with a dominant gene, you only need 1 gene to present the dominance. I've no idea if the ISA's are 2 or 1 gene dominant. As they are a hybrid, I suspect 1 gene dominant white in *most* of them? With 1 gene present (assuming), you will get 50% passed along. So progeny are 50% white dominant and 50% non-white dominant.

So yellow down chicks will be ISA white dominant hybrids with the barred. However if the ISA has only 1 white dominant gene, 50% of the chicks will be black with a white head dot. Your birds will all be barred, as the barring passes down 100% from a pure Barred Rock rooster, however you won't be able to see the barring due to the white dominance in those who receive that gene...or I find you can get "ghost barring" which is very faint greyish barring lines...which is kind of cool.

Interesting...I had no idea ISA was white dominant, and it gave me a chance to study further white dominant vs. white recessive and silver (which I understand better).

LofMc

ISA Browns and similar sexlinks come from crossing a Rhode Island Red rooster with certain kinds of white hen (Rhode Island Whites are common but not the only ones.) The "white" hens have both Silver and Dominant White.

Both genders of ISA Browns get one copy of Dominant White from the mother, and one copy of not-Dominant-White from the Rhode Island Red father. Because Dominant White is dominant, that's what they show.

So an ISA Brown hen would be able to give her chicks either Dominant White or not-Dominant-White, because she has one of each gene.

Dominant White only affects black, not red, so that's why ISA Brown hens look red and white, not white all over.

The sex-linkage comes from the gold & silver genes on the Z chromosome. Sons get Silver from their mother and gold from their father, so they show Silver (it's dominant.) Daughters get gold from their father and a W chromosome from their mother, so they show gold. That is what lets them be sexed by color as chicks.

 

[Pullety]

You are right that the white ones are crosses.

When the chicks grow their feathers, you should be able to identify any pure Barred Rocks that are MALE, because they will have more white than the females. That's because they get two copies of the barring gene (from their mother and their father), instead of just one copy (any female chicks, along with sons of the ISA Brown hens.)

When they get old enough to recognize males by their combs, you should be able to tell which males are mixes (dark barred chicks that are male).

For sorting out the daughters, I agree with @Lady of McCamley that the ones with an ISA Brown mother should have some red leakage when they get older. For females, I would especially look at the breast area (like where Black Sexlink hens get the red leakage.)




ISA Browns and similar sexlinks come from crossing a Rhode Island Red rooster with certain kinds of white hen (Rhode Island Whites are common but not the only ones.) The "white" hens have both Silver and Dominant White.

Both genders of ISA Browns get one copy of Dominant White from the mother, and one copy of not-Dominant-White from the Rhode Island Red father. Because Dominant White is dominant, that's what they show.

So an ISA Brown hen would be able to give her chicks either Dominant White or not-Dominant-White, because she has one of each gene.

Dominant White only affects black, not red, so that's why ISA Brown hens look red and white, not white all over.

The sex-linkage comes from the gold & silver genes on the Z chromosome. Sons get Silver from their mother and gold from their father, so they show Silver (it's dominant.) Daughters get gold from their father and a W chromosome from their mother, so they show gold. That is what lets them be sexed by color as chicks.

Wow, thank you for this information!

At what age do you think the (black) females would be discernible as pure or crossed Barred Rock?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Wow, thank you for this information!

At what age do you think the (black) females would be discernible as pure or crossed Barred Rock?

I should think by the time they get adult feathering. *Usually* (but not always) you get some red bleed through, or possibly some white bleed through with the ISA's single white dominance gene, so that they don't just look like a black barred bird.

However, it may be very hard to tell the pure barred rocks from the hybrid Isa-rocks (non-dominant white) as they will be black barred birds either way.

I think the ISA has yellow shanks as does the barred rock, so different shank color won't help either, because the rooster will also be adding the black wash on the shanks.

But in answer...by the time they get adult feathers.

LofMc