City Issued a Citation and claims we aren’t allowed to have chickens due to neighbor’s complaint. What are my options?

[All4Eggz]

Some time last year the city came because of a noise complaint, demanding we get rid of almost all the flock and all the roosters. We had almost 10 roosters, had to get rid of all of them.
Had about 60 chickens, they said we can only have 15 so we brought it down to about 20 and the guy let us slide. He’s a nice guy, always is trying to help us and doing everything he can to let us keep the chickens.

That was sometime last year. We’ve had chickens for around a decade so we thought we’re off the hook. City clearly said we are allowed 15 hens because of the size of the coop and property, multiple inspections followed the complaint last year.

Some back story. Fresh eggs are huge in our family. Chickens are a big deal here. We don’t even eat store bought eggs, before they would even make some of our stomachs hurt.
So I am trying to do anything I can to keep these hens. We don’t sell eggs anymore, no profit from them. Just the fresh eggs, and occasionally, meat.

I am just needing help on how I can fight them this time…

It’s the same neighbor complaining this time.
This time there’s rats “coming from the coop and into her garage.” And i don’t deny we have rats, i’ve seen a few here and there. The chickens are close to her property line but we have double fencing to divide both sides.
The guy from the city claimed she provided “evidence” of the rats because she took photos/videos of them in her garage.
HOW is this evidence that they’re coming from our coop, and how is that enough to force us to get rid of all our chickens?

The man mentioned something about other neighbors being involved, so she must’ve got other people on board to fight against us.

I am willing to do what it takes the keep the 15 that we were allowed in the first place.

Thinking of moving the coop to the other side of the property, it would be almost an acre away from the complaining neighbor’s fencing.
I can get an exterminator for the rats if it I find it to be affordable…. I’ll do this if I need to. I’m not going to do it if I have to get rid of the chickens either way.

Please share your experiences if any, and any insight on what to do/how to do it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[All4Eggz]

At the zoning and development meeting, the discussion on amending the chicken ordinance was at the end of the agenda. So I patiently waited 2 hours and finally, they began discussing a proposition for a new ordinance.

The point of this discussion was for the council to figure out a reasonable ordinance that they could put forth in the committee to get voted on *if it gets a yes vote at this hearing.

The city planner was present and discussed with the council on what they could propose. The one I got an the email was a draft, I guess, so that wasn't officially what they were putting through.

Instead of 7500 sq ft for 6 hens they brought it down to 5000, with the required coop distance from property lines at 10 feet and from neighboring structures at 30 feet. This is very reasonable. I liked the initial "draft" or discussion that allowed for an additional 3 hens for every 7500 sq feet but because the city planner wanted to kind of ease it in, he wanted to keep the limit of chickens low. I brought that up but it got shut down quickly. I asked if there could be a possibility for people with more land to have more hens than 6. They decided on 40,000 feet. I said that doesn't make sense... 6 hens for 5,000 square feet and 40,000 for 12?? So someone with 39,000 square feet (still nearly an acre) can only have 6 hens? The council actually considered my input and they changed it to 20,000 square feet. So 6 hens at 5000 sq ft and 12 at 20,000 sq ft. I was happy with even this.

Then came the vote. 3 members of the council were there to vote. I needed 2 out of 3.
And I got exactly that!! They voted in favor which means they put the ordinance proposal into writing, made a petition in the name of the city council, and put it through to be discussed at public hearings.


This is already major. I've been waiting and working hard for over a year on this. Took so long to get it on the agenda to even be discussed, and now it was voted yes to be put into voting.

So, May 1st (in TWO days) there is a public hearing by the city council to vote on the matter. Public input is welcome, and the city councilor asked me to prepare to speak.
May 6th is the second public hearing, and this one is by the planning board. They also allow for public input.

This is so so big. People told me it wasn't possible. I talked to paralegals, councilors, city officials, chicken owners, nearby towns-- and for the last two years I've gathered so much information that debunks chickens being a problem in city limits. I presented information in writing at the hearing last month and the council was impressed.

Thank you for all your support. I'm looking forward to attend both hearings and hopefully they vote yes to put it into law!!!

The councilor that I work with closely says he predicts there's a good chance it will go through!
Every surrounding town allows chickens in all zones with some or no limitations (i.e, number of chickens, no roosters, etc.), and our town is more agriculturally based or farming based compared to most nearby towns.

Looking forward to updating you all with hopefully great news!!

 

[All4Eggz]

Please don't do that, Ben. Do not lower yourself. Remember the Sermon on the Mount, and Whose you are. I know your standards.

Once you cross the "tit for tat" bridge, there is usually no going back unless/until one of you moves. That might be a long time.

Definitely won’t be taking it out on them.
Clearly there’s a reason they reported it and maybe to them it seems right to do it. And to be fair we were not in compliance with the ordinance so I can’t really be mad at them, they don’t understand the connection we have. And maybe it was with ill intent but that makes no difference I’m not going to start a war over that.

 

[All4Eggz]

Good news.
I spoke with a city council member today who happens to be a neighbor (a few blocks away).
He wholeheartedly agreed with me and is willing to help. He said he will talk to the member who made the proposal and see what they can do.

He also told me that we shouldn’t have let them on our property unless they had a warrant. He said the government shouldn’t dictate what we do with our land.

Overall a very great guy and I’m glad I had the opportunity to speak with him.

Even better news.

“by the end of May” sounds amazing to me.
That’s two months. If that happens you guys do not know how happy I’ll be.

I dropped off the remaining 6 hens at a friends house today.
I said goodbye but I know I’ll have them back in a little bit .

Thanks y’all for the advice. I’m really hoping and praying this works.

 

[sourland]

I would start with trying to control the rat problem. That may require the help of a professional.

 

[SandyRiverChick]

We live sort of near a river, rats live near rivers so maybe that will help in defending the possibility that these rats aren’t here because of the chickens..

I live on a River. If ever I saw a rat in my coop I would not blame the River, it's my bad. It's close to impossible for some people but if you're determined to do it and do it right, start with a forum search on "Rats" and find the many threads where Al Gerhart posts Howard E.'s article about how to truly get rid of them. It's a long read but outlines the 3 necessary steps: Sanitation, exclusion, elimination. I added a 4th, "Control." Meaning, implement a control so that it doesn't happen again. My Control is Feral Cats. When you're successful Rats will not be in your coop whether they live in the woods or river bank or whatever, they don't have a reason too. I would also know the City ordinances in and out. It's not really a debate with a Neighbor when the ruling is covered by the ordinance. Good Luck! My property had a rat issue when I bought it but I won, they're gone~ !!

 

[All4Eggz]

The hearing went very well. I expected to be one of maybe 2 people that spoke in favor of the ordinance. There were four total from the public that stood up to speak in support, or in favor of the ordinance. No one present from the public spoke in opposition.
We addressed concerns such as waste management, proximity to neighbors, special permits, inspections, etc. The city council seemed to be mostly in favor of moving forward with it- thats what we’re looking for; we need a majority vote. I believe there are 11 or so members. There were some questions and pushback from a couple members of the council, one of which voted no in the March hearing but she was outnumbered by the two other votes. She spoke on behalf of 3 residents who emailed her in opposition to the ordinance- but I told myself, she really should have tried harder and have people come in to state a case. We had lots of public support and I personally had around 15 people come to support- from friends and family, to coworkers and prior teachers. Overall very good turnout and the councilor said he has a good feeling about it.

Next is the planning zoning and development board hearing on the 6th of May. Tuesday. Again, I will prepare to speak and debunk common lies about chickens in city limits.

I’m just saying even if this doesn’t pass, I’m so proud of how far we’ve come and I will never stop fighting.

After the Tuesday hearing, there will be, I believe, two more meetings scheduled to vote on the matter. Both the city council and planning board will have to vote, majority will put it through. That will likely be toward the end of May or even early June.

I was curious to see if the neighbor would show up- the one who complained about our chickens. Nope. I was also shocked that nobody spoke in opposition from the public, at the hearing. I feel as though not many people even knew about the hearing. Which, I guess, was good for me because I was able to get 15 folks to come in support of the ordinance so the council would see that it matters to the public— and nobody spoke in opposition. Basically my idea is that if more people knew about the hearing, more people would have came and that would pose a possibility of negative public input.
Anyways, it went a lot better than expected. Praise God.

I’ll update you all after the hearing on the 6th.

Ben

 

[Lacy Duckwing]

I would start poisoning the rats right away. In my neighborhood, I have a neighbor who is getting similar complaints. Everyone, including myself, has seen rats in her woods and around her barn, and last year, our neighborhood got overtaken by rats. Our neighbors had a legit reason to complain about my neighbor with the farm, but to some of us, the blame for the rats shouldn't only be on her. We live in a trailer park, and there's a lot of people here who have overflowing dumpsters, trashed yards and houses. So as far as she getting all the blame, some of us agree that the rats are coming from all the trash- not just the chickens.

I've been raising chickens for nearly thirteen years, and only in the past couple of years, I've been dealing with rats. This I blame entirely on a nearby neighbor who often has an overflowing dumpster (this dumpster has even called in vultures). As soon as I see new rats moving in, I put out this one-bite poison screwed to a board in a fully enclosed run that's attached to my chicken coop. The rats will eat it all within a couple of nights, and because they live under the coop itself, they're having minimal access to predators who might eat them afterwards.

• Kill off the rats.
• Ensure your neighborhood is clean, and if not, move some of the blame to that.
• Know your town/city's ordinance on chicken keeping, right to farm, and possibly food sovereignty as well.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Don't leave poison in the open. Use a bait box and chunx bait. You should have been doing this from the beginning.

Immediately implementing a protocol to eliminate rats on your property, two to three tamper proof bait boxes, will go a long way in your plight. It shows the authorities you are a responsible livestock owner and plan to never be in a position where others can claim you are the reason for rodents in the future. Calling an exterminator after complaints arise is not showing anything.

 

[Sally PB]

Thinking of moving the coop to the other side of the property, it would be almost an acre away from the complaining neighbor’s fencing.

While that might not deter the rats from roaming, it might help with other potential problems, like noise or smell, in case the neighbor has mentioned those.

Rats might have discovered the chickens' feed, and moved in for that. Can you keep the feed in a rat-proof feeder and container?

Keep in mind any poisons put out for the rats might harm your chickens.

Good luck. I hope you resolve this issue.