Constant diarrhea - completely soaking the coop bedding

[John Sutter123]

Hi all, Seems like I've wasted a lot of money at two different vets with little resolution of digestive issues. Please let me know what you recommend. I really appreciate you guys.

What type of bird, age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)

- 10 birds in the flock. 10 months old: 2 each of Marans, Wyandottes, & Orpingtons. 5 ½ months old: 2 each of Barred Rocks & Black Australorpes. Added in the 4 younger birds on December 10, 2022. The 4 younger birds were said to have been vaccinated, the 6 older ones were not.


2) What is the behavior, exactly?

-At least 4 of the 10 (for sure the 2 Wyandottes and maybe 1 of the barred rocks) have had chronic diarrhea since mid-January 2022 (approx. 6 weeks). I just replaced all the coop pine shavings bedding in mid-January; the original litter was in there since May of 2022 and dry as a bone (deep litter method). After only 6 weeks, the new pine shavings are becoming completely soaked in wet poop (please see photos). All kinds of little bugs (nats) are draw to it.


3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?

-Approx. 6 weeks


4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?

- Please take a look at the photo with the poop on cardboard: it appears that there are at least 4 birds with extremely wet poop; for sure the two Wyandottes.


5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.

-Both Marans have a bunch of feathers missing from the vent and belly area but that is from feather picking. Both my Orpingtons have pinless peepers on now and that has solved this issue.


6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.

-Just my guess: Added 4 new birds to flock on 12/10/22; maybe stress. Was Fermenting the food on and off (not consistent) to try to unlock more nutrients and make the feed go a bit further. Had been keeping a bucket feeder (dry feed only) in the run so they had food anytime they wanted; they would rake out and waste a bunch of feed, then eat it off the run floor (double ground log mulch). I read something about this can cause moldy food, so now I just feed them outside on the ground AM and PM.


7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.

- Except for Wyandotte #2 (crop issues), normal eating and drinking at this time. “New Country Organics”, F50 layer feed, 17% crude protein. Added ACV & Rooster booster (vitamins, electrolytes, and probiotics) into water. I bought some organic Purina layer crumbles (16% protein) at the feed store yesterday and am considering changing over to this feed; what do you guys think? Vet said grains are harder to digest.


8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.

-Poop is very liquid- please see photos. Cardboard was put under the roost bars last night.


9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?

-Marans #1 – had vent gleet. 2/3/23 treated with Miconazole for vent gleet – seems resolved now.

-Wyandotte #2 – Impacted or Doughy crop. Took to vet 2/24/23. They did a fecal float and it came back negative for everything. They did not test for Yeast/Candida Albicans. Vet gave me Nystatin & Trimethoprim to crop feed with syringe and tube. Crop is better now but will most likely need a bra.

-Wyandotte #1 – Worst diarrhea of all. Took to different vet on 3/2/23. They did these two tests and both came back negative: 1) Grams Stain, 2) Fecal Exam-comprehensive. They said they checked for Yeast/Candida as well as parasites – negative on both results. Vet gave me Panacure susp 100mg/ml to beak feed 1x/day.


10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?

-I’d prefer to do the treatment myself if possible

-I have never wormed any of the birds – maybe I should. Could this be from worms?

-Please help me identify the cause of the constant diarrhea.


11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.

-Please see attached photos


12) Describe the housing/bedding in use

-Coop bedding – pine shavings. Run bedding – Double ground log mulch & sand.

 

[nuthatched]

What do their crops feel like? Try a hanging feeder hung chicken chest high to prevent raking and waste. They should have access to feed all day. Is the New Country feed a whole grain feed? Pellet feeds are better because the birds can't pick out the parts they like and leave the rest, so they don't get proper nutrition.
I'd switch to a higher protein feed like chick grower with oyster shell in another container. Are the vitamins always in the water and do you have a source of plain water?
Watery poop us often a sign of watery treats like veggies or malnutrition.

 

[Eggcessive]

What is your general location? Has it been warm? Hot weather may increase thirst. Stop the ACV and the vitamin/electrolytes. Have you stopped the fermented feed? If not, I would stop it, and feed the layer feed. I switched back and forth from crumbles to pellets, and the pellets seem better to prevent waste. If you could add some probiotics to their feed or water, that might help. Cottage cheese can sometimes help with diarrhea. Others use cooked rice and buttermilk. But limit treats, and watery fruits and veggies.

 

[John Sutter123]

What do their crops feel like? Try a hanging feeder hung chicken chest high to prevent raking and waste. They should have access to feed all day. Is the New Country feed a whole grain feed? Pellet feeds are better because the birds can't pick out the parts they like and leave the rest, so they don't get proper nutrition.
I'd switch to a higher protein feed like chick grower with oyster shell in another container. Are the vitamins always in the water and do you have a source of plain water?
Watery poop us often a sign of watery treats like veggies or malnutrition.

Thanks for your advice Nuthatched,

Except for Wyandotte #2, all the crops seem nice and full, but not hard, before roosting, and empty in the morning. In the future, I will be paying much more attention to their crops. I'll get a hanging feeder and some high protein Pellet feed tomorrow. The new country organics is whole grain. Until the past week, I typically added 1 ounce of ACV and Rooster booster ((vitamins, electrolytes, and probiotics) to their sole source of water. I am now only giving plain water. I normally give table scrapes to them every morning (peels from banana, plantain, garlic, onion, carrot, sometimes scraps of meat); I am stopping all this now and will only give feed, plain water, and a few black soldier fly larva for bribes until I figure this out.

 

[John Sutter123]

What is your general location? Has it been warm? Hot weather may increase thirst. Stop the ACV and the vitamin/electrolytes. Have you stopped the fermented feed? If not, I would stop it, and feed the layer feed. I switched back and forth from crumbles to pellets, and the pellets seem better to prevent waste. If you could add some probiotics to their feed or water, that might help. Cottage cheese can sometimes help with diarrhea. Others use cooked rice and buttermilk. But limit treats, and watery fruits and veggies.

Hi Eggcessive,

I live in the Tampa Bay, FL area. Last summer when it was very hot, they did drink a ton and got diarrhea from that; It is not nearly that hot here yet. I stopped ACV, vitamin/electrolytes, & fermented feed. I like your idea about the pellets and will get a bag of high protein pellet feed (maybe grower & and add oyster) tomorrow. I don't have a stand alone probiotic so substituted Greek yogurt today. I fed them cooked white rice, buttermilk and yogurt this evening. We'll see how the cardboard under the roost looks in the morning. Other than BSFL, no more treats. Only plain feed and water. Thanks for your help and I'll keep you posted.

 

[Eggcessive]

Just put the oyster shell in a separate container for taking freely.

 

[John Sutter123]

Hi All,

Here's some updates and further questions regarding the diarrhea issue:

1) Switched to Purina Flock Raiser 20% protein feed. Added free choice Oyster shells. This is the only feed I could get in 20%. I could not get pellets, only crumble. (please see photo)

2) Changed feeder to prevent raking. (please see photo) It appears that the hens with the pinless peepers are having trouble getting their beak deep enough down to get the food; especially when the feed level drops a little. Do you guys have any suggestions on the feeder?

3) Feeding white or brown rice, buttermilk, and greek yogurt to try to stop the diarrhea. Please take a look at the various "Poop - cardboard under roost" from 3/4/23 to 3/7/23. Maybe getting just a little better? The smell of all this diarrhea poop is really, really bad, even worse than a cecal poop.

4) Crop bra for Wyandotte #2 arrives this Saturday. After 3 weeks of working on her crop (Miconozole for a week, then crop feeding water, Nystatin, Trimethoprim, and many hours of massage), I finally got it working better. Still a hard crop in the morning, but much, much smaller (between tennis and golf ball). Do you guys think I need to worry about plugging up her crop with the rice, buttermilk, and greek yogurt?

5) 3 out of the 6 older birds are chronic feather pickers/eaters. That's the reason for the pinless peepers. Hopefully the higher protein feed will stop this so I can take off the peepers.

Please let me know if you see any issues or I need to make to make any changes to the treatment plan.

 

[Red Horse]

Have you tried just adding some probios to their water? It sounds like maybe they've had a lot of dietary changes in a short period of time, maybe just sticking with flock raiser for a few months with no treats or additives with a little probios in the water every other day could help build up some consistency in their guts (and of course free choice grit and oyster shell). I've seen some people swear by yogurt/dairy and other people say chickens shouldn't have it, so maybe just straight probiotic could help. Mine were pretty messed up after corid and it just took some time and feed consistency to get back to normal.

 

[Eggcessive]

I would stop the cooked rice now. That was something I would just have offered for one day. Try mixing a small portion of the remaining buttermilk with the chicken feed in a small bowl. I hate most chicken feeders because they get stuck up with powder in the bottoms, and feed cannot come down unless you manually clean them out daily. I feed in flat metal pig pans from the feed store.

 

[John Sutter123]

Have you tried just adding some probios to their water? It sounds like maybe they've had a lot of dietary changes in a short period of time, maybe just sticking with flock raiser for a few months with no treats or additives with a little probios in the water every other day could help build up some consistency in their guts (and of course free choice grit and oyster shell). I've seen some people swear by yogurt/dairy and other people say chickens shouldn't have it, so maybe just straight probiotic could help. Mine were pretty messed up after corid and it just took some time and feed consistency to get back to normal.

Hi Red Horse. I don't have a stand alone probiotic; do you have a particular one you could recommend? I really appreciate your recommendation of getting consistency back in their guts; make sense to me. I've been documenting the various poop issues over the past several days and will post some updates later today.