Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Florida Bullfrog]

I'm creating this thread as a journal for a breeding project I've been planning for some time. I would like to take my small junglefowl hybrids that I've been raising for the last year and a half and increase their size and attitude substantially. They've already proven themselves to be great survivors in the predator-dense Florida woods. But they're very small and their practical use for meat and eggs is limited. Not totally non-existant, but not ideal. I'd like to have a larger version that's three times the size and has some more anti-predator fire. A bird that can respond to a predator in other ways besides simply being agile and avoiding being caught. To some degree, this bird already exists in the American gamefowl (albeit not as large as I'm imagining). But I want to utilize my junglefowl which have proven their hardiness. I've been compiling genetic materials over the past year and refining my junglefowl. Here's where' I'm starting:

1. My junglefowl hybrids. Their info is located in this thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ngle-fowl-in-the-american-deep-south.1309995/

Here is my chosen bullstag to sire my F1s:

I have many junglefowl hybrid stags, but this one is my favorite that has survived two major rounds of culling. He has an athletic build and good feathering and so far I like his attitude. Human aggression was a problem in my first generation birds that I've seemed to have purged from the next generation. Of course only further generations will tell for sure. I call this bullstag "Number 1" because of a picture in which I labeled him "1" of several stags.

2. The Liege. I obtained 3 quality Liege pullets just recently. Originally I was going to avoid using the Liege in my project, but I've been so impressed with them I think they'll suit my purposes fine for my F1s. I actually wasn't expecting to find Liege on a farm near me, but low and behold I was surprised. Big thanks to hydlemour and Didby57. I don't yet have good pictures of the pullets, but this afternoon I took a quick video of one of the pullets right after a rainstorm in the breeding coop I'm going to keep them with until I get a hatch from them and Number 1.

I want to see how much of the JF traits will pass on to the F1s. So far the JF traits seem to dominate anything I cross them to, including leghorns, Wyandottes, and OEGB. The Wyandotte cross I have running around is the first one I've produced that involved breeding the JF to something other than a straight comb. I presume that I'm going to lose the straight comb on these F1s, but I suppose that also depends on what is floating around in the background of the Liege.

I have aseel on my farm I'm keeping in my back pocket in case I need to breed more fire into them, but I also understand that may introduce a whole slew of other traits I may not want. My brother is going to undertake a project crossing aseel to both Liege and the JF, so we'll compare notes on our F1s to see what we like best. My original plan was to use the aseel for my F1s to the JF, but my choosen strain of aseel isn't showing the size I want. I'm guessing the aseel I have are going to top out around 5lbs at the most. I also have access to some straight Americans if I decide the next gen needs them.

I'm thinking to get the look somewhat close to what I want, its going to take junglefowl x Liege, then Junglefowl x F1. I should get some straight combs on the next gen. It will depend on how much size will be sacrificed on the next gen of crosses. Of course, if I like the F1s right off the bat, I'll formulate a plan to lock the traits in.

I'd love for my final bird to look mostly like my JF hybrids just much bigger. But I also want a functional bird first and foremost so selection for appearance is secondary. A definite must is for my final bird to be able to launch itself high up into a tree to roost. I basically want the final bird to do anything a wild turkey can. I have a few JF stags with abnormally large wings I may have to cross in. I can see a definite difference in vertical take off between the birds with very large wings and those with normal wings. All of them can fly up to roost fine but the big winged birds can shoot straight up into a large pine to the branches of their choosing in the first flight. That's going to take bigger wings on the Liege and also shaving a few pounds off.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Here's all three of them. I observed them for a little while this evening and they seem well.

They take deep cover when a hawk attacks. A hawk made a run at some JF bitties this evening and the Liege hid deep in cover. The grey one with the green bands went deep in the palmettos with the chicks.

The black and grey pullets seem to enjoy being in proximity to me. The one with the gold hackles doesn't like me. All three will bite hard when handled (but are otherwise calm when picked up). One of them like to walk behind me and peck my right leg but I can never tell which one it is when I turn around. Its either the grey one or the black one.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I took some pics of Indo today. It took about 300 pics to get a handful that were decent. He normally poses well but the breeze was strong today and my daughter kept him stirred up.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Introducing Sherman. Approximately 4.5 month old Thai x aseel, line bred, stag from Bigtom Turkey, that likes taking selfies.

Out of the box, he has more human-oriented personality that any chicken I’ve had to this point. My daughter and I had a lot of fun interacting with him this afternoon.

The long term plan is to pair him with Azog’s offspring to add another layer of oriental genetics, then cross back to Azog again. But he’a got a lot of growing to do, as do my Azog offspring.

It is not yet clear to me whether the terrorfowl chicks are going to come out looking more like Liege or true orientals. I have over 60 growing out and another 42 due in a week.

And for giggles…

This turkey hen’s eggs were infertile, so I switched them out with somewhere around 32 terrorfowl eggs. Let’s see what happens.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Have you thought of doing artificial insemination with your rooster that doesn't like the hens? There are youtube videos showing how it is done, seems really easy to do.

I have not. I didn't even know that would be reasonably possible for a hobbyist. If its practical, it could be a possibility. For now, I'm going to just let the Liege blend in to the free range flock and I'll try to see if any of the roosters that will breed them are ones I'll be happy with.

The Liege are doing better now that they're free ranging. The grey one with the green bands was looking sickly for several days and was getting lethargic, then overnight she was better. They're all feeding vigorously now and seen to take their fair share of feed offered to the flock.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Day 1 is almost over. So far he isn’t eagle chow.

 

[troyer]

I’ve noticed that in Florida, urban feral flocks retain strong layer builds while flocks in the woods retain mostly game or junglefowl builds. I presume the difference is in part the result of needing an extra dimension or athleticism in the woods. The urban flocks also have predators but I bet its easier to avoid a feral cat in an open lot than it is a bobcat in the thick bush. I also think layers are more disease resistant and there is probably more pathogens in urban flocks.

Or it can simply be the fact that urban flocks have more layer genetics constantly fed in where backyard coop chickens join the feral flock periodically over the course of several years.

It would be very interesting to me to inject some Sumatra genetics into your flock and see if that would improve the savviness. Not the show lines, but rather a combination of show and hatchery stock. It seems to me that a Sumatra crossed with a Florida cracker would produce some incredibly savvy free rangers.
I had a hen that ranged out a quarter of a mile on occasion so she was at least partly familiar with the lay of the land in this scenario. Half that distance was more normal but the field they had access to, was a quarter mile field. She was a hatchery Sumatra and an incredibly good mother. She had the built-in instinct to fake a broken wing to lure a predator away from her babies. In this instance it was a neighbors' dog. She had done something similar to our 16 week old puppy earlier in the year.
She had twelve chicks just over two weeks old when a dog from the neighboring farm showed up, she gave a sound of danger and the chicks scattered in various directions and scooted underneath any bit of cover directly available, a couple of them just froze in place. This dog came to the normal area where most of the coops were at, she got his attention by flapping around and faking a broken wing, the dog took off after her, but she stayed just out of his reach. She took him to the end of the field which is exactly .3 of a mile from where she started. At the end of the field was a brushy fence line, she went through the brushy fence line with the dog still chasing her and took to the air flying all the way back close to where she had left the chicks. She waited for approximately 10 minutes watching to see if the dog would come back, he didn't which when she seemed confident that all was well she again made a clucking sound of "come here my babies", they all cautiously popped up from where they had been hiding and ran to mama.
I stood there and witnessed this first hand.
This was in an area with coyotes, bobcats, foxes, raccoons, opposums, skunks, feral cats and neighboring dogs.
It was also a hawk migrating route bringing what seemed like half a dozen hawks twice a year on top of the local hawks that very seldom were able to get any chickens because of their savvy dispositions.
I don't have any of those Sumatra genetics anymore because I decided to raise Cubalaya instead, but I have done something similar to what you are doing with your free rangers and it shows.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Indo is a stud. But I don’t think totally he’s what I’m looking for in my final product. His wings are too short and he’s only just on the large size for an American gamefowl (I think in another year and a half Indo will be in his full splendor and he’s top out around 7.5lbs). He can fly for the purposes of attack and going to roost but I think his wings really need to be large in proportion to his body size. I think he’s an excellent rooster and a dear pet. But he’s just a genetic stepping stone for the purposes of my final large gamefowl.

Azog, on the other hand, may end up being the bird I had in mind when I split the project into two lines. He’s already tracking to be significantly larger than Indo and his wings are large even for his body size. He’s very personable to me but highly dominant towards other chickens. He scavenges aggressively, as does Indo, but unlike Indo I believe he’ll be capable of taking and eating prey larger than he can swallow. I believe I can teach him to kill rabbits and pick the meat off their carcasses. Not that he’ll necessarily be able to run a wild cottontail down, buy if offered a slow domestic rabbit or if he finds a nest of young wild rabbits I believe he’ll learn to kill and eat once he learns they taste good.

He is now penned in a large coop with my layers which I have pulled off of free range. I expect he’ll undergo rapid growth and maturity as Lanky did. I’m going to give him access to constant food. I believe he’ll be near Indo’s size before he’s a year old.

I am reasonably sure he’ll be my brood cock for the next step. Which is choosing a suitable hen and line breeding him to the offspring for several generations in order to make a whole flock of Azogs. One candidate is my large American x aseel pullet. Another possibility would be to obtain another pure Liege hen and line breed him back to the Liege over and over again or alternatively breed Indo to her and try to make a female counterpart to Azog before pairing and line breeding them.

Its a shame I lost my golden hackled Liege hen to the bobcat. She was always healthy and thick even when free ranging. I’m sure the bobcat ate well that day. She would have been a nice one to either make more 3/4 Liege off of or to cross back to Azog.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Random pics of the terrorfowl chicks on free range.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Lots to update.

The terrorfowl chicks are out free ranging again. By day 2 of being penned they looked well. When I turned them back out they ran back to the dog fennel patch in front of the coop door but ignored it in favor of the grass underneath it. There’s been no losses that I am aware of and the birds continue to look healthy. I have another 31 growing out in a ground brooder. I’m going to keep these on fresh grass up until when I turn them out to free range. That might temper their urge to run to succulent toxic plants when turned out.

I obtained 5 new pure Liege from the local breeder who has supplied all of my previous Liege. They also had a brood cock pegged for the strew pot so I obtained him for my buddy. He’s quite proud of the brood cock.

Unfortunately, I had them packed too tight for transport and the brood cock sliced open the back of one of the hens. Then dung got in it. Pic is of the original wound after washing.

It is healing nicely. I am dosing her with Tylan and she also gets nitrofurazone twice a day on the wound. I think she will be fine. In the hospital pen she adopted a Cracker chick that was slipping in to eat her food.

Finally, the turkey hen lost all but one of her chicks. But that one chick is something else. He runs with her across the whole farm. They spend much of the day on my deer food plot on the far end of the farm with a wild turkey hen. I think that chick is a rooster. If that chick survives to adulthood, it will be an amazing free range survivor.