Don't believe the small Solar panel charging lies!

[gtaus]

The 2 things solar, and heater do not come together in same sentence.

Yeah, using solar energy to run an electric heater to heat water wastes a lot of energy.

I have seen some passive solar water heater systems where the water is heated in coils directly from the sun and stored in a black water tank. Lots of passive solar energy soaked up by the black coils and tank to (pre)heat water, saving energy to heat it up to final temps.

I also saw a solar water battery setup where the sun was used to heat up water in large holding tanks, and the stored heat was somehow later converted to energy. Don't remember specifically how the stored hot water was turned into useable energy, but it worked for them.

And, since we are discussing unusual methods of heating, I saw a YouTube video from Edible Acres(?) where he buried some water coils into an active compost pile. The compost pile would heat up the water in the coils and then the hot/warm water was run through a radiator of sorts and used to heat his greenhouse in the winter.

 

[Sydney65]

I know I'm going to hurt the sensibilities of some good people here on the BYC community, but I am going to tell you what I have learned in my process of educating myself on using small Solar panel kits to recharge something as little as my power tool batteries.

First of all, I was thinking, could I save any money if I recharged my power tool batteries using a small solar panel, like maybe a starter kit from Harbor Freight?

So, let's crunch some numbers I found.

A starter kit for solar panel charging is on sale for $150.00. It would be great to recharge my power tool batteries with "free" solar instead of using grid electricity, right? Well, not so much.

I went online and found out that to recharge my biggest 40v 4Ah battery, at the current electricity grid price of 0.14/kwh, would cost me $0.03 to go from empty to fully charged.

How many times would I have to recharge that battery to break even on the purchase of that solar panel kit?

$150.00 for the solar panel kit/$0.03 grid cost to charge a battery = 5000 recharge cycles

OK. I know this is not going to work out for me. But lets see what the payback period would be....

5000 cycles/365 days in a year (assuming one battery recharge per day) = 13.6986 years!

I really don't average even one tool battery recharge per day, but let's be generous and go with recharging 2 batteries per day because I'm outside whipping the grass, cutting up wood with my battery powered chainsaw, trimming up trees with my reciprocating saw, and maybe running a few battery saws and drills when I am working on a pallet project for the chickens.

5000 cycles/365 days in a year/2 charges per day = 6.8493 years.

That payback period would put me in my 70's. Not a great investment for me. And that assumes the solar panel kit would last 7 years or longer without breaking.

I don't know about the economics of going solar unless you get a massive system up on the roof. Wondering if anyone out there uses these small solar panels kits for anything other than van living or camping?

Sometimes change isn't about anyone's sensibilities or immediate payouts, but the over all betterment of the future.
There are lots of solar gadgets that comprise our infancy in utilizing it. I light my run and gardens. The garden lights are cheaper units; cloudy day, no light. My run units light up at night even with rainy days. I do have to dust the snow off, though. I have cheaper units that agitate the water in the bird baths-if there's sun. I have a larger unit that runs the pump in my water feature. It is larger and has attachments to charge a battery.
When I was teenager, very few ppl had vcrs or cable. The lucky kid carried the family vcr over for sleep overs. When the internet came along, our kids introduced us to it by dragging us to the public library. Now the only person I know who doesn't have,use or know how to use the internet is my mother, and that's only d/t her absolute refusal to learn even when it was in her house while my dad was alive.
I don't have a solar home. We used to have oil furnaces, and had to have someone come fill the tank and hyperventilate when I looked at the bill. Now we have an electric furnace. It's cleaner and cheaper. But I remember the coal burning stove that heated my grandfather's house.
The oil burning furnaces came out in the 1920's. I've given you a brief look at 100 years worth of change and advancements.
I'm sure there was a lot of resistance and poo pooing along the way, just as there were bumps in the road of advancement.- Although I'd wager your bump there was probably made in China.
I understand ppl are resistant to change..some changes take me awhile to adjust to, as well. I'll never understand absolutely refusing what's inevitable, as my mother has.
I understand your resistance. But it is inevitable that we are using up the planet's resources. Frankly, I'm resistant to the idea of moving to Mars,even if it were possible in my lifetime. For one thing, I'm not fond if flying. But I'm not fond of knowing my grandchildren and their children will suffer the consequences of our inaction, either. I thought being a young adult in my time was rough. Now I see it was a cakewalk in comparison.

 

[gtaus]

Now we have an electric furnace. It's cleaner and cheaper.

I also have an off peak electric furnace. I also have a propane tank backup in case the electric company temporarily turns off (controls) the electricity for the furnace. The furnace will automatically switch to propane if the the off peak power is being controled (turned off). Off peak electricity is about half the normal grid rate. So, heating the house with electricity is about 40% cheaper than heating with propane where I live.

As far as cleaner, there is really no smell to the electric heater whereas we can smell the burned propane if that kicks in. Not a bad smell, but you can tell it the furnace switches over to propane.

I understand ppl are resistant to change..some changes take me awhile to adjust to, as well.

Well, I am not so resistant to change. In fact, I mostly welcome it. However, it just did not make financial sense to me to buy a small $150 solar panel kit to recharge my batteries. When I crunched the numbers and found out that my average sized 18v battery costs about half a cent to recharge on the grid, then the whole idea of a $150 "free" solar power panel kit to recharge them no longer made sense.

To be honest, when I first considered this idea, I really did not know how much it cost me to recharge my tool batteries. I was thinking maybe 25 cents per charge. I guess I was a little off now that I have tested it out with a Kill-A-Watt meter and found that is actually costs me less than half a penny to recharge my 18v battery!

FWIW, our electric company is invested in large wind and solar panels to make electricity. Part of their "Green Drive" to the future. The electricity they buy from wind and solar is more expensive than coal fired plants. I don't think we have any nuclear power plants anywhere on our grid. Anyways, the electric company sends out updated stats every year on how much they get from renewable resources like wind and solar. As the price comes down with better equipment, they are slowly increasing the percentage they buy.

I understand your resistance.

It's purely a dollar and sense issue with me. I look to save money anywhere I can while at the same time thinking about a cleaner world. I shred up all my waste paper to use as chicken coop bedding instead of hauling it to the recycle center (which ends up in a landfill), I make my own compost instead of buying bags at the big box stores, and lately I have been building a number of projects using reclaimed and pallet wood. All resources that previously might have been dumped into a landfill somewhere.

I was hoping that a small solar panel kit would fit into my life philosophy, but the numbers just did not come close for me. If I actually lived off grid, then I suppose a much larger solar setup would make sense for the whole house.

 

[Sydney65]

I also have an off peak electric furnace. I also have a propane tank backup in case the electric company temporarily turns off (controls) the electricity for the furnace. The furnace will automatically switch to propane if the the off peak power is being controled (turned off). Off peak electricity is about half the normal grid rate. So, heating the house with electricity is about 40% cheaper than heating with propane where I live.

As far as cleaner, there is really no smell to the electric heater whereas we can smell the burned propane if that kicks in. Not a bad smell, but you can tell it the furnace switches over to propane.



Well, I am not so resistant to change. In fact, I mostly welcome it. However, it just did not make financial sense to me to buy a small $150 solar panel kit to recharge my batteries. When I crunched the numbers and found out that my average sized 18v battery costs about half a cent to recharge on the grid, then the whole idea of a $150 "free" solar power panel kit to recharge them no longer made sense.

To be honest, when I first considered this idea, I really did not know how much it cost me to recharge my tool batteries. I was thinking maybe 25 cents per charge. I guess I was a little off now that I have tested it out with a Kill-A-Watt meter and found that is actually costs me less than half a penny to recharge my 18v battery!

FWIW, our electric company is invested in large wind and solar panels to make electricity. Part of their "Green Drive" to the future. The electricity they buy from wind and solar is more expensive than coal fired plants. I don't think we have any nuclear power plants anywhere on our grid. Anyways, the electric company sends out updated stats every year on how much they get from renewable resources like wind and solar. As the price comes down with better equipment, they are slowly increasing the percentage they buy.



It's purely a dollar and sense issue with me. I look to save money anywhere I can while at the same time thinking about a cleaner world. I shred up all my waste paper to use as chicken coop bedding instead of hauling it to the recycle center (which ends up in a landfill), I make my own compost instead of buying bags at the big box stores, and lately I have been building a number of projects using reclaimed and pallet wood. All resources that previously might have been dumped into a landfill somewhere.

I was hoping that a small solar panel kit would fit into my life philosophy, but the numbers just did not come close for me. If I actually lived off grid, then I suppose a much larger solar setup would make sense for the whole house.

We had oil furnaces before. In the dead of winter when you walked outside, you could smell it from the furnace exhaust. I did have a gas furnace once, in an apt. I was raised to, and cont to., wash the walls a couple of times a year. The residue from oil and gas left the wash water pretty gross. Now it's just dusty at most. Electric is a lot dryer, though.
I do understand your point. We get frustrated w/rechargeable battery operated tools longevity - and cost of replacement batteries. But then, I hate dragging a cord around and am highly likely to cut the cord along with the bush (yeah, did that once). He was upset that a manufacturer stopped making a certain battery-op sawsall so replacement batteries were no longer available. He opted to go back to electric. In comes me, done raising kids and more active in home improvements, etc. BUT, knowing my hx, the last thing I want to do is use a corded saw to install an additional pop door inside the confines of a coop.
My suggestion is that it's less about the .03 it costs you to use electricity, and more about conserving electricity consumption. Consider, if everyone were using alternative energy for the little stuff, maybe there could be fewer rolling black outs.
For some, saving that .03 is a quest inwhich they'll drive around looking for the cheapest price of gas and boast about saving .03 a gallon. It's all in perspective, I guess.

 

[gtaus]

I do understand your point. We get frustrated w/rechargeable battery operated tools longevity - and cost of replacement batteries. But then, I hate dragging a cord around and am highly likely to cut the cord along with the bush (yeah, did that once).

I switched over to cordless tools once they started having ~equivalent power of a corded tool. The cordless tool had to be strong enough to get the job done.

He was upset that a manufacturer stopped making a certain battery-op sawsall so replacement batteries were no longer available. He opted to go back to electric.

Way back in the day, I had purchased a number of cordless tools from a number of different manufacturers. Seemed like the battery platform was obsolete in a few years and you could not get any replacement battery packs for your tools. That was very frustrating. Hard to justify getting a cordless tool that was only going to last a few years and then you had to throw it out because you could no longer buy batteries for it. At that time, I mainly kept with corded tools, too.

About 15+ years ago, I decided to buy into the Ryobi line of cordless 18v tools because, at the time, they promised to stay with their battery platform forever. It was probably the best decision I have ever made. Although my 15+ year old Ni-Cad batteries are mostly dead and replaced, I still have a few of those original Ni-Cad batteries that are somewhat usable. More importantly, since Ryobi stayed with the 18v battery platform (size and shape of battery), my new Li-Ion battery packs work even better in my old Ryobi 18v Ni-Cad era tools. I am still using most of my original Ryobi tools from 15+ years ago but with new Li-Ion packs which last longer and are much better.

I'm not saying my Ryobi tools are the best out there. I'm just saying that for my DIY efforts, they have always gotten the job done. For the relatively little use my tools get, I don't think I have ever had a Ryobi tool fail within the warranty period. I'm still using my tools from the original kit I purchased 15+ years ago. That includes a drill, saw, flashlight, and impact driver.

Consider, if everyone were using alternative energy for the little stuff, maybe there could be fewer rolling black outs.

I live in rural area, in northern Minnesota, and we don't have rolling black outs. Not yet, anyway. We do have interruptions, occasionally, but not from overloads. More like the company working on the lines or some equipment failure.

For some, saving that .03 is a quest inwhich they'll drive around looking for the cheapest price of gas and boast about saving .03 a gallon. It's all in perspective, I guess.

That used to be me, too! But, these days, with a pickup that gets only 13 mpg, I don't bother to drive across town to save a buck on a purchase. I don't get good gas mileage, but I no longer drive very much. Maybe 1000 miles per year. So, I keep my old trusty pickup instead of replacing it with a newer model and better gas mileage.


My days of trying to impress a young lady about my nice car is long over!

 

[DeanDelfin]

I wouldn't be so skeptical about it. It depends on what you will use the solar energy for and how many panels or kits you will use. A single kit is not the best solution. I'm using renewable energy at home, and I've placed a few massive panels on the rooftop to get the power to run a house. It was a great solution, especially when living in a sunny state. I've got enough energy to have the electricity, wash, and even heat the water with boilers. It is a better solution for me, as energy bills are costly there, and my kids use a lot of electricity. I can switch to the regular system if something happens a swell

 

[gtaus]

I wouldn't be so skeptical about it. It depends on what you will use the solar energy for and how many panels or kits you will use. A single kit is not the best solution. I'm using renewable energy at home, and I've placed a few massive panels on the rooftop to get the power to run a house. It was a great solution, especially when living in a sunny state. I've got enough energy to have the electricity, wash, and even heat the water with boilers. It is a better solution for me, as energy bills are costly there, and my kids use a lot of electricity. I can switch to the regular system if something happens a swell

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you on all points. I live in northern Minnesota, not considered a sunny state, so I was only looking at a small solar panel to recharge my tool batteries and not a full house solution. When I found out that it only costs me 3 cents to recharge my 40v battery, and less than a penny to recharge my 18v tool batteries, then it just did not make sense to me to purchase a small solar panel kit (currently at $169.00) to recharge my tool batteries.

If I lived elsewhere, with lots of sun, I would certainly consider a full-blown solar system for the house. I'm all for using less polluting sources of energy.

 

[springvalley123]

I wouldn't be so skeptical about it. It depends on what you will use the solar energy for and how many panels or kits you will use. A single kit is not the best solution. I'm using renewable energy at home, and I've placed a few massive panels on the rooftop to get the power to run a house. It was a great solution, especially when living in a sunny state. I've got enough energy to have the electricity, wash, and even heat the water with boilers. It is a better solution for me, as energy bills are costly there, and my kids use a lot of electricity. I can switch to the regular system if something happens a swell

And, welcome to BYC!

 

[Ridgeback825]

For us, it's more about having the ability when the grid goes down. We just went through hurricane Ian and had no cell service for a week and no power from 2 weeks. This made me reevaluate the need to not only charge batteries, but also move water. I am assembling a solar charged 12v rainwater collection system for our chickens and gardens. This would make our best protein source less dependent on the grid, which is priceless. I have a 75w panel and a diaphragm pump connected to a buried 300 gallon reservoir. It's less about the money and more about sustainability.

 

[klb25]

I know I'm going to hurt the sensibilities of some good people here on the BYC community, but I am going to tell you what I have learned in my process of educating myself on using small Solar panel kits to recharge something as little as my power tool batteries.

First of all, I was thinking, could I save any money if I recharged my power tool batteries using a small solar panel, like maybe a starter kit from Harbor Freight?

So, let's crunch some numbers I found.

A starter kit for solar panel charging is on sale for $150.00. It would be great to recharge my power tool batteries with "free" solar instead of using grid electricity, right? Well, not so much.

I went online and found out that to recharge my biggest 40v 4Ah battery, at the current electricity grid price of 0.14/kwh, would cost me $0.03 to go from empty to fully charged.

How many times would I have to recharge that battery to break even on the purchase of that solar panel kit?

$150.00 for the solar panel kit/$0.03 grid cost to charge a battery = 5000 recharge cycles

OK. I know this is not going to work out for me. But lets see what the payback period would be....

5000 cycles/365 days in a year (assuming one battery recharge per day) = 13.6986 years!

I really don't average even one tool battery recharge per day, but let's be generous and go with recharging 2 batteries per day because I'm outside whipping the grass, cutting up wood with my battery powered chainsaw, trimming up trees with my reciprocating saw, and maybe running a few battery saws and drills when I am working on a pallet project for the chickens.

5000 cycles/365 days in a year/2 charges per day = 6.8493 years.

That payback period would put me in my 70's. Not a great investment for me. And that assumes the solar panel kit would last 7 years or longer without breaking.

I don't know about the economics of going solar unless you get a massive system up on the roof. Wondering if anyone out there uses these small solar panels kits for anything other than van living or camping?

We are entirely solar powered. It's a small cabin we've been building for a couple years while living in it. We hard-wired it in, so anything we plug into an outlet is connected to our Goal Zero Yeti 3000. The Yeti is charged by eight 100w 12v panels on our roof. We have a TV, fridge (converted chest freezer), two ceiling fans, CPAP, etc.

As for our chickens, we don't have anything hooked up in the coop other than little solar string lights.

Edited to add: The Goal Zero 3000 cost 3k when we got it. The 8 panels were less than $100 each.