Dust Bathing in Diatomaceous Earth

[larsen202]

I'm getting mixed messages on Diatomaceous Earth for dust bathing. I need info from experienced chicken people.

 

[blucoondawg]

In my honest opinion the only thing DE will get rid of is money from your wallet. While dusting birds may be minimally effective against mites as stated above it won't get rid of them, it also won't be effective at treating the coop, most coops are not completely dry, putting DE in a damp environment is pointless. DE is really pushed on this forum by many people who want to keep their birds away from drugs or pesticides but the fact is that drugs and pesticides are the only real guaranteed way to eliminate the pest.

 

[ivan3]

Always use FOOD GRADE ( <1% crystalline silica). As members above have suggested, just mix in a bit in their regular dust bathing area.
We have a fire pit where we burn nothing but raked up leaf clutter and branches - so, the wood ash and topsoil do the job. In the coop/shed we just add a couple of cups of amorphous diatomaceous earth (ADE) into the sand base & wood chip bedding. The stuff is a desiccant and can ABsorb up to 4 times its wt. in water so using straight ADE on Chooks, as primary material for dust bathing, isn't a good idea (just jam one's hand down into a bag of ADE and wait five minutes - one will require considerable "lotion" to soften one's hand afterwards - same with chook's skin).
ADE, like other Sorptive Dusts, kills by ADsorption of the lipids from the outer covering of insect's chitinous exoskeletons which results in insect's fluids "leaking out", at which point the ADE then ABsorbs those fluids. ADE is more effective when relative humidity is low, some species of insects are more sensitive than others to the effect (Wood Roaches hanging out under the waterer remain too damp to give a "damp"). Even a light dusting & mixing of bedding before applying to floor will, most often, go a long way to drying out droppings.
Pretty useful and, if one can get a 50lb bag at the feed store for ~$25, pretty cheap preventative/desiccant. A slow acting, sorptive, insecticide (primarily used to knock down weevil populations in grain storage).

 

[DylansMom]

I'm getting mixed messages on Diatomaceous Earth for dust bathing. I need info from experienced chicken people.

From what I understand it is okay to add food grade DE to the dusting areas, it can have some value as a preventative/deterrant to lice. However if the birds are already infested with lice DE will not kill off the lice and clear up the infestation. You will need Sevin (vegetable dust) or poultry dust to actually get rid of an established infestation. And you will need to dust all areas, coop, run, roosts, and birds themselves, and wear a mask while dusting.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

If you have access to wood ash you can use it for the dusting areas or have a small kiddy pool of ash for a designated bathing area. It's an inexpensive deterrent to parasites.

 

[bigt447]

I use DE to dry poop in coop & pen .....it almost totally eliminates odor as it dries it out.... So I don't have to clean those areas as often.

 

[ivan3]

I don't plan to inhale DE ever, and don't want my birds to have to live in it either.  When lice or mites arrive, I will use permethrin to kill them, otherwise not.  My birds dust bathe in sandy soil, and sometimes a little wood ash added.  I'm totally with blu on this issue.  Mary

I agree, coops are dusty enough as it is, I'm sure I've inhaled plenty of nasty crap in my construction career this far and don't care to sprinkle anything in my coop that can cause silicosis

Just to clear this up: Silicosis is the province of "Pool Grade" DE (~20% Crystalline Silicon Dioxide). One can easily make the distinction between ADE & calcined DE by placing a small amount on the palm of one's hand on a sunny day and, if it glitters and glints it's the calcined product (melted into "glass" and crushed into tiny shards - yes, exposure to this can result in Silicosis - most often diagnosed in workers lacking adequate protective gear at calcined DE manufacturing facilities).. ADE, on the other hand, remains a dull gray flour. ADE is regarded by both the FDA & EPA as GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe) and is approved for indoor use (under kitchen cabinets/in the beds of dogs, etc) as an insecticide.

Now, where things get interesting is that when sold as an "insecticide" for indoor use it falls under the EPA's Pesticide labeling requirements. Producers/Manufacturers use this as an excuse to jack the price. So, I buy a 50 lb. bag at the feedstore for $25 while on a back shelf in the same feedstore is a 2 lb. bag of the very same ADE selling for $8.95 ("for the homeowner"). EPA had to send out a series of nastygrams to the biggest producer/manufacturer, Celite Co., to remove "For Commercial Use Only" from any quantity as "this product can be used by homeowners, as well". Celite was busy creating a "line" of products - with different price points - from the same ADE, e.g., a 50 lb. bag of ADE being $25 (Canton Mills), while a 50 lb. bag of Celite's Diafil 610 (nothing but ADE) went for $27 - nick the cattle producers as well.

To be certain, regardless of which materials one employs in the coop/shed THERE WILL BE DUST. Any member with sufficient concerns about, or already existing problems with, lung function/compromised immune response should, at the very least, be employing an N-95 rated mask when in the coop/shed.

 

[blucoondawg]

I know the difference and honestly don't care which government agency deems it safe, I'm not going to be breathing it in, it makes no sense, it provides little to no benefit in a chicken coop so why bother?

 

[ivan3]

I know the difference and honestly don't care which government agency deems it safe, I'm not going to be breathing it in, it makes no sense, it provides little to no benefit in a chicken coop so why bother?

As I'm not competent to answer anyone else's rhetorical questions, I'll defer. As there was the same yes/no binary "opinion", on this matter, when I arrived at BYC eleven years ago, I read up on the established science of the class "Sorptive Dusts" (of which ADE is the powder with the least noxious risk profile) and slow death by aDsorption, a mechanism which continues to etch away at the lipoids even after the death of the insect, i.e., no "friction" (movement), no "cutting/stabbing/slashing" of insects' exoskeletons need apply as the primary mechanism of action that led to deaths. Performed several quantitative exams of the substance and was satisfied with price:effect ratio. Our biological assay "canary in the coal mine" 10.5 yr. old Black Sex Link hen was still "spry" (though poor legs have grown short & fat with age - none of us respond well to gravity over time ) and bright-eyed this morning (swear by Estes Hatchery line of Black Sex Link hens). Only "exposures" of dust I concern myself with? Yeah, upwind is good. Whatever works, yes? Have a great day!

 

[the poppster]

Yes I've mixed it in with the Sandy soil for my birds...I've also mixed wood ashes, crushed mint, oregano, dried crushed tansy leaves, peat moss, cheap bag soil (no additives)...I built a 4x4 ft Dust box for the birds...they spend the best part of the winter between their coop and a big covered run...