Tennessee /Spring, 2014
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/nashville-tn/37219/may-weather/351090
Weather- Mixed. Temps: Cool to warm 43-90 degree day and nights.
Conditions- heavy/mild rain, some hail, sunny days.
((updated. This is a fairly long post, more like a log as to explain the conditions and routine's of the situation)).
I wish to present a situation in which it goes against everything I have learned or read about Quail and I am a quick learner "sometimes". It is based on my experience and having raised chickens for over 10 years as a teen (I am sure I am rusty). Still, for me it defies any logical sense (other than Mother Nature) that I know of based on several factors. In such I became so enthused or enticed with the idea, I chose to see this through! I ask your indulgence and input, Please!
Back in late April of 2014
I purchased 18 quail as to train my Llewellin pups on. As to date, I currently maintain 15 total (7 Males and 8 Female) Bob White quail. 3 quail had unfortunate accidents of 2 second tooth decay thanks to the 6 month old "in training" puppies!
To backlog to the beginning of this situation, my quail started breeding and laying 1-2 solid white eggs every day or so as soon as I got them. So after a few weeks I decided to add a bale of straw to their pen. Then I decided to spread the hay bale. About two weeks after straw bale one or more of them had constructed a single nest and all were laying eggs in it. I eagerly watched day after day as more and more eggs accumulated.
As I understand it, it is common that quail will only lay one egg per day, and I noticed by visually counting, that 1 to 3 eggs variations were being laid each day. The birds only seemed to be laying eggs but not setting so I tossed the clutch (about 20) after a week and a half of no setting. Just as I expected, the next day the hen or hens started lying in the nest again.
May 5, 2014 and forward-
Since the hens seem to be laying consistently and the weather is somewhat unpredictable warmer, I decided not to bother the eggs to see if they are ever going to nest.
Over the next 30 day duration, the eggs became such a cluster that they were being pushed out of the nest. Mimicking as closely as possible the original nest I quickly dug in the hay and constructed a nearby 2nd nest and as discreetly as I could, I shifted some of the eggs into my hand made nest.
My thought and hope was that they were all so busy lying in the one nest, that any hen which was willing to set/nest was being disturbed off the nest. I hoped to encourage the layers to move to a second nest and leave any Hen setter alone to nest full time. Over this time, I watched the nest for a couple hours each day as to monitor the progress.
Here are my observations for the Month of May 2014:
From the above, I concluded what seemed obvious, that the hens nesting/setting times vs the amount of time off the nest was very irregular compared to other foul. The inconsistencies in their setting suggested a slight warming of the eggs which most likely was warming the eggs and starting the embryonic sequence of events.
The inconsistencies of the irregular weather patterns, warm days and low temps (40 dg) at night would cause any embryonic sequence to start and then cease, die out, or at least rendered the eggs non-viable; also due to age, much less the fact that some may not be fertile.
June 4 2014.
This morning, I became frustrated as there are close to 90 eggs total in both nest and a few of them I would not even call eggs due to their age. Not 1 of them indicates any regular “NORMAL” hen like settings, much less hatching. Obviously!!! So without a thought, I disregarded all eggs in the nest I constructed as they were abused and neglected. So I suspect!
Moving to the nest the quail built, I removed all of the eggs, some of which was buried half in dirt/hay mix as they were pushed down over time. Obviously some are at least 15-20 days old or more and some even have cracks, or pip like holes on the ends! I suspect that these are the older eggs and are damaged from the frequent visits, weight and being buried deep underneath the newer laid eggs! Out of this community mid-wife nest I collected a total of 47 new and very dirty looking, damaged eggs.
I considered tossing the pips and cracks after I candled to verify that they were not "by chance" hatching. But after candling I had a change of heart and kept cracks and pips just out of curiosity.
I washed every one of the eggs (submerged and green pad scrubbed) in water and Dawn and cleaned them the best I could, including the cracks and pips.
The cleaning was dual purpose as to perform the float test as they washed (including the damaged ones). The eggs were submerged for about 3-5 minutes. 2 floated and I re-candled thinking I missed those and just drowned two embryos. After-wards, rinsed, dried and placed “all” eggs (including the floaters) in my home made Styrofoam incubator and set it on 100 @ 50%h. I even added the one egg I dropped from about 2 feet but did not show damage.
One of the many considerations and reasons for placing all eggs in the incubator, spite their appearances, I am unsure of the fresher laid eggs. Excluding a few, most looked fairly old so I figured better safe than sorry; the culls will come out time.
June 5, 2014
Today I dated and added 3 new/fresh laid eggs to the incubator. I now have 50 eggs in the basket.
June 6, 2014.
It’s been 2 days and I have decided to check on the eggs to see any indications one way or another. I have been hand turning them 3 times a day but resisted candling until now. At this point, it is still too early to tell but I can swear I see something. Being unsure after candling 5 eggs I decide to give it another day.
June 7, 2014
I suspect out of the 50 I will have maximum of 15-25 good eggs and the rest will be culled due to their age or cracks and pips. Resisting the urge, I hold off candling until the nightly turning.
At 10:00 p.m I decide to start candling the eggs and have a bucket ready as I plan on culling over half of them. As I pick up the first egg, it is very obvious that there is a life form starting to take place. I can see blood vessels that look like a road map. What random luck and relief, the first pick is developing and obvious, this will make culling very easy! My luck continued as I picked up 4 or 5 more in a row, all of which showed viable signs of growth.
I know my luck was about to change as I moved towards the older looking eggs, especially those with cracks, pips and the one I dropped on the hard floor. In saying that I had to candle twice as I could not believe what I was seeing, all but 1 egg were viable and showing developments of growth!
June 8, 2014
I still cannot believe the outcome, so this morning I collected and added 8 more eggs to the batch. I even left a one in the nest as to keep the HEN moral high. If all hatch from my incubator and live that will be 58 chicks. I am still watching the 1 egg I said was not viable just to be sure.
I am now at 58 eggs.
June 9, 2014
I candled again today as I still cannot believe it that all eggs are developing. It is apparent that they are all alive and growing as I can start to see the black spot. I know some of these eggs set for over 25 days in the weather and nest!
Still, that old saying keeps echoing in my head....
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"!
June 10, 2014
This is the 6th day and I am not gonging to candle as I feel I am candle handling them too much. In saying that I did candle 3 that I suspect I will lose. The one I thought was not viable appears to be Cystic but I also see faint other lines. With the oddness of this first clutch I am going to give it another 24 hours. If I lose 3 that is still 95% success of eggs in which some are 15 days old or more, subjected to the months weather.
June 11, 2014
This morning I decided to move my productions to 95% and tossed the 3 eggs that were in question. It looked as if one would be deformed as there was a large air sack on one, the other being Cystic, and one infertile.
Still, of all the eggs being of various ages from 1 - 15+ days old, I consider that a good viable success rate.
Just to note however, neither of these 3 were the damaged eggs.
(Update)
Of the 3 eggs I culled, 1 was developing but looked milky, one was cystic, and the third was no development at all (not fertile/viable).
I am now at 55 eggs!
June 12-17, 2014
A lot has been happening the past 5 days, and after checking two or three eggs, they are getting to dark for my flashlight to candle. I will still give it a shot tomorrow maybe. I need a better candler.
The 14th really threw me off course as one of my dogs(sunny) tick collar (Preventic) came loose and my neighboring dog (Sam) in the next kennel decided that he would like to eat some of it.
Sam was very sick/poisoned but I was able to bring him around. It was an all day nervous exhausting event totally focused on bringing Sam out of his current state.
His symptoms were sever as he was producing long drools and was staggering and tripping over his own feet, his eyes bloodshot and all his actions were so uncoordinated I thought he was going to die. In his mindset, he would stare at objects as if he could not understand what he was looking at, and I suspected that his hearing or mind processing was retarded. It took harsh calls and much coaxing to get him to acknowledge my calling him, and then he was slow to respond. I train 3 ways, E-collars, voice commands and hand commands and he acted like he was not understanding or hearing the hand and voice commands (no e-collar on a sick baby).
Three interval doses (10cc each) of Hydrogen Peroxide over a two hour period worked equally well in inducing vomiting within the 5 minutes of ingestion. All together, I retrieved close to 2 inches of chewed up bits and pieces out of him. Also, I have to say I have never given a dog an enema before, but such does serve a necessity.
Sam drank lots of sugar water, force feeding/hand feeding all he would eat, and walking him every 30 minutes helped him to pass the smaller pieces deep within his intestines and flush his kidneys, as well as flush his intestines with water.
The whole point was to remove, empty, and flush him out, and saturate his body with liquids as to dilute the the toxins in his bowls. In short flush him empty and dilute... Not much could be done for what had already made it to his blood stream, thus a second reason for the sugar water, to keep his kidneys constantly flushing toxins rather than letting the kidneys accumulate them.
Sunday 6-15- 2014
Today was Fathers Day, so not much happened. Sam is back to his old self this morning, but I can tell a difference in his charisma. Up until 3:30 p.m. I walked Sam, and kept a close eye on his every move.
I love my 5 of my dogs like my children, but beyond that I have over a $1000.00 in each of my dogs alone. I be ****** if I will lose one to a dang tick collar. So today I super-glued each of their tick collar so that they cannot slip off.
Monday 6-16-2014
It does not pay to have your big brothers come to visit.
My big bro visited today, so after I dug a few post holes, we sat around and drank a few cold ones as the day heated up.
In such I lost 1 pheasant chick due to my stupidity. I let the dogs out after forgetting the chicks were out. I now have 3.
Tue 6-17-2014
Another fruitless day as I had to mow this 2.5 acre yard and go pick up some electrical materials. I also am designing a new lager coop based off of the old one (12 x 16). All I have time and energy for is feeding and watering.
Wed 6-18-2014
I did not do much to the eggs today other than rotate and turn them as usual. I spent too much time calculating my material list for the next pen to contain the upcoming covey of 57 quail. "Don't count your chicks before they hatch" is still echoing in my head but I have to prepare for the (((what looks like the strong possibility))) baby chick quail.
Giving up on the calculations. I decided to set some post and run 130 feet of electrical conduit and line. Not an easy thing to do in 90+ degree weather.
Thur 6-19-2014
I have decided I have wasted to much time designing and calculating materials for the pen, brooder box, and coops. Whats more I am nearing if not over the $400.00 mark in materials!
As for egg turning, I only turned them twice today (morning and Night) as I was busy shopping most of the evening.
I don't want to even admit how much I spent on these dang birds as I know I will never make the money back on them! Still, it is becoming a passion almost equal to my Llewellins which I have been neglecting their training and attention as the work was piling up.
Fri 6-20-2014
I got back on the egg turning tack today and its business as usual. However, I noticed the humidity took and dive over night so I brought the humidity up to 99% for a few hours hopping to counter/replenish any drying the eggs might have encountered.
The rest of the day was dedicated to my Llewellins, quail, and the 3 pheasant. I have to start the transfer pen and finish it tomorrow as the pheasant are starting to jump and fly out of the 2 foot high cardboard box. The will not stop growing just because I need to rest. I still have a few days to build the Brooder.
Inspecting the quail nest, I already have what looks to be about 60 or more eggs laying and going to waste. I will start them after I see what happens to this experimental batch. If all or a good percentage hatch, I will do it again.
I inspected some of the eggs in the pen and notice some extra calcium on the shells so I am watching the hens for any upcoming signs f sickness. I strongly think it is more due to the fact the siphon stopped and they went without water for about 6 hours while I was shopping. If not that or a combination of that and the higher temps, it is the oyster shell I have been adding to their feed.
Sat 6-21-2014
After all chores, (feeding and watering, birds, dogs, cleaning kennels, and turning eggs), I started working on building the finishing pen and Brooder box. I had both frames cut before my son come over to help.
It was around 95 today so we took it easy and came in for about 2 hours when the sun was 12:00 o'clock high, talked and drank a beer or two.
Due to the visiting, work and walking the dogs, the eggs only got turned 2 times again. The humidity dropped again so I boosted it back up to 99% as I feel the AC or the embryo's are starting to suck up the moisture. I feel it is more the embryo's as they are in a room that stays more humid as the temp is around 80 degrees.
Spite the fact that my AC has been running every day since I started incubating, my Incubator has been fairly consistent in temp and humidity, Now things are changing for no other reason other than embryo development.
I honestly believe the eggs/embryo's tell you more when they need more moisture than going by a calender of 25 days incubation, 21 days at 50% humidity and the last 3-6 days at 80-90% humidity.
Sun 6-22-2014
Spite the fact I do not like to work on Sundays, I still need to feed and do some finishing on the Finishing cage my Son and I built yesterday. On top of that I still have the dogs and other chores to tend to.
The eggs seem to be doing well and turning is back to normal, but I will stop turning on Wed or Thur as they will be coming due to hatch. My incubation temp has been a consistent 100 degrees and some my have developed quicker because of such.
10:00 pm update!
As I was looking in the incubator, I noticed some small brownish yellow noodle that was not there before. After inspection I found that an egg was badly cracked that started seeping. Also, I lost three more as to were blood rings and my flashlight hit the 3rd. The flashlight cracked egg was the of the last nine that I added on the 8th. Upon discarding I opened the egg and found that it was developing nicely and looked further along than 14 days. I may have some early hatches out of the batch.
What ever hatches will be a surprise based on the ages and conditions of the eggs before putting them in. I still suspect that this run will be around 4% success, but we will just have to wait and see.
As for the bad eggs, its all my fault for not candling but I have been doing a few things that has taken allot of my energy and time.
After recounting the eggs I now have 48 which I worried my count was off but I remember culling two one day but did not log them, after all the culls I now count 48 eggs.
Tuesday 6/24/14
Today is day 20 on 37 of the quail eggs, the others quail eggs are 3 @ day 19 and 8@ day 16. In such I have decided to go ahead and stop turning 40 of the eggs (dated 6/4 & 6/5 2014). The other 8 will still present a problem as they will need to be turned for 4 to 5 more days while the others are pippin and hatching. Since the eggs are in lock-down I do not want to open the door any more until I have too as to keep the humidity high so I have come up with the following.
My devised plan is to take a pencil eraser or maybe some duct tape (reversed) and attach it to one end of my aluminum arrow shafts and navigate the terrain thorough a small hole in the Styrofoam. Then I can just twist the arrow shaft or make small side to side movements as needed. That should allow me to turn the needed eggs. Also, if needed this will allow me to move or remove any shell that seems to be hindered others during pippin or hatching without opening the door and lowering the humidity.
Since there would be only 8 eggs to turn, I doubt that such a quick loss of humidity would really have an effect, but I rater not take that chance as the 37 eggs are questionable already (due to their age and weathering). Besides, excluding any early and late hatches I expect whatever the hatching to take place over a period of 3 days due to the 6/4 and 6/5 dated eggs.
As of 10:30 last night I robed the nest of the eggs that the quail have been laying since 6/9/14 when I emptied the nest of all but 1 egg.. This morning I found 2 more and the day is still going. All together, I counted 70 eggs. None of the eggs were brown and speckled as I have seen from photos of Coturnix quail so I suspect that 4-5 of my hens are laying (70 /16 days= 4.66…7). I have not found that 0.66…7 egg as of yet but I did multiply that by 15 days and I came up with 9.9999 eggs, so I suspect there is a 5th hen laying at least every 2 days fairly consistently.
Now I am looking for that 0.9999 egg so I can wax it shut!
6/25/14
After looking to find some cheaper ways of feeding and getting a higher protein game bird food (opposed to the 20% crap at coop and a Starter higher than 24%), I called my local feed mill. They were happy and very reasonable to mix me up a batch of Milo and soybean at 30% protein. I plan on giving it to all my birds. I picked up some extra soy bean mill and will mix it with the 20 and 24 % commercial stuff. I also have 5 lbs of whole sorghum seed, which might or might not be Milo, that I have been adding as a Bonus for when they are good and lay eggs.
The stuff I picked up today is all ground mill but I think I can make it into a granule or pellet for the adults using the techniques implemented in making black powder.
I could have got a bushel of whole soybean but I was afraid that it might be the strain that was to large for the birds to eat. I kind of wish I went ahead and got it ($23.00 for about 55 lbs) as I think I can crush it down myself if needed.
I found out the protein levels of the grains, which are:
Milo - 9%
Soybean- 37%
from this web site,
http://www.avianaquamiser.com/posts/Protein_content_in_chicken_feed_ingredients/
and plan on using this to make my own using the local mill.
I got home around 6:00 pm today and took a quick peep in the incubator. No chicks, but I am seeing little raised flakes of shell on 8 or more eggs. Some I cannot even say if they were not part of the shell to begin with but most are obviously pips.
It is obvious what is about to happen
and they are in the range of the common 23-25 day incubation period. To me this is a good sign as it suggest I have done some things right. I just wonder how many will actually make it or pip and hatch?
My brooder box is semi- ready as I picked up the final hardware that I forgot. It will take maybe an hour to finish.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/nashville-tn/37219/may-weather/351090
Weather- Mixed. Temps: Cool to warm 43-90 degree day and nights.
Conditions- heavy/mild rain, some hail, sunny days.
((updated. This is a fairly long post, more like a log as to explain the conditions and routine's of the situation)).
I wish to present a situation in which it goes against everything I have learned or read about Quail and I am a quick learner "sometimes". It is based on my experience and having raised chickens for over 10 years as a teen (I am sure I am rusty). Still, for me it defies any logical sense (other than Mother Nature) that I know of based on several factors. In such I became so enthused or enticed with the idea, I chose to see this through! I ask your indulgence and input, Please!
Back in late April of 2014
I purchased 18 quail as to train my Llewellin pups on. As to date, I currently maintain 15 total (7 Males and 8 Female) Bob White quail. 3 quail had unfortunate accidents of 2 second tooth decay thanks to the 6 month old "in training" puppies!
To backlog to the beginning of this situation, my quail started breeding and laying 1-2 solid white eggs every day or so as soon as I got them. So after a few weeks I decided to add a bale of straw to their pen. Then I decided to spread the hay bale. About two weeks after straw bale one or more of them had constructed a single nest and all were laying eggs in it. I eagerly watched day after day as more and more eggs accumulated.
As I understand it, it is common that quail will only lay one egg per day, and I noticed by visually counting, that 1 to 3 eggs variations were being laid each day. The birds only seemed to be laying eggs but not setting so I tossed the clutch (about 20) after a week and a half of no setting. Just as I expected, the next day the hen or hens started lying in the nest again.
May 5, 2014 and forward-
Since the hens seem to be laying consistently and the weather is somewhat unpredictable warmer, I decided not to bother the eggs to see if they are ever going to nest.
Over the next 30 day duration, the eggs became such a cluster that they were being pushed out of the nest. Mimicking as closely as possible the original nest I quickly dug in the hay and constructed a nearby 2nd nest and as discreetly as I could, I shifted some of the eggs into my hand made nest.
My thought and hope was that they were all so busy lying in the one nest, that any hen which was willing to set/nest was being disturbed off the nest. I hoped to encourage the layers to move to a second nest and leave any Hen setter alone to nest full time. Over this time, I watched the nest for a couple hours each day as to monitor the progress.
Here are my observations for the Month of May 2014:
- 3-4 hens (hard to tell them apart) seemed to be sharing and performing what looks like (what I have come to call it) a community mid-wife to one large clutch of eggs in the one nest.
- The hens visit the original nest occasionally in cycles for about 1-3 minutes at a time as to perform nesting rituals or laying of eggs!
- Some occasions a hen would enter and leave immediately.
- The hens visit my constructed nest but not as often (about 2 times a day, same nesting durations if any).
- The hens never laid eggs in my had made nest.
- The males hardly paid much attention to my nest and would go in and then come back out, or just peek inside out of curiosity.
- The hens visits to the original nest were not consistent (all day), but only about 5 or 6 times each.
- Every now and then, a hen would set the nest for about an hour during the warmer part of the day, but never in the times or weather conditions that you would expect.
- The total accumulated time of all hen settings was only about 3-5 hours out of 24 hours on any given day.
- Sometimes another male or female would enter and take over, but never for the 1 hour duration as the setting female.
- The hens visit the original nest occasionally in cycles for about 1-3 minutes at a time as to perform nesting rituals or laying of eggs!
- In the start of the egg laying fest, the nest was sometimes well guarded by one or two males who seemed to show interest.
- The guarding became less consistent as the days passed. 3.
- These 2 males also seemed to share in the duty of community mid-wife and set the eggs as well.
- The males sometimes set the eggs for about 5 minutes max before leaving the nest.
- The Males total time on the nest was about 1-2 hours out of 24 hours.
- None of which (male and females) would set the nest throughout the night.
- 9, 10, and 11 o’clock flashlight visits confirmed this.
- Their absence as night time was leaving the eggs exposed to Cool 40 + degree nights and 65- 90 degree warm days.
From the above, I concluded what seemed obvious, that the hens nesting/setting times vs the amount of time off the nest was very irregular compared to other foul. The inconsistencies in their setting suggested a slight warming of the eggs which most likely was warming the eggs and starting the embryonic sequence of events.
The inconsistencies of the irregular weather patterns, warm days and low temps (40 dg) at night would cause any embryonic sequence to start and then cease, die out, or at least rendered the eggs non-viable; also due to age, much less the fact that some may not be fertile.
June 4 2014.
This morning, I became frustrated as there are close to 90 eggs total in both nest and a few of them I would not even call eggs due to their age. Not 1 of them indicates any regular “NORMAL” hen like settings, much less hatching. Obviously!!! So without a thought, I disregarded all eggs in the nest I constructed as they were abused and neglected. So I suspect!
Moving to the nest the quail built, I removed all of the eggs, some of which was buried half in dirt/hay mix as they were pushed down over time. Obviously some are at least 15-20 days old or more and some even have cracks, or pip like holes on the ends! I suspect that these are the older eggs and are damaged from the frequent visits, weight and being buried deep underneath the newer laid eggs! Out of this community mid-wife nest I collected a total of 47 new and very dirty looking, damaged eggs.
I considered tossing the pips and cracks after I candled to verify that they were not "by chance" hatching. But after candling I had a change of heart and kept cracks and pips just out of curiosity.
I washed every one of the eggs (submerged and green pad scrubbed) in water and Dawn and cleaned them the best I could, including the cracks and pips.
The cleaning was dual purpose as to perform the float test as they washed (including the damaged ones). The eggs were submerged for about 3-5 minutes. 2 floated and I re-candled thinking I missed those and just drowned two embryos. After-wards, rinsed, dried and placed “all” eggs (including the floaters) in my home made Styrofoam incubator and set it on 100 @ 50%h. I even added the one egg I dropped from about 2 feet but did not show damage.
One of the many considerations and reasons for placing all eggs in the incubator, spite their appearances, I am unsure of the fresher laid eggs. Excluding a few, most looked fairly old so I figured better safe than sorry; the culls will come out time.
June 5, 2014
Today I dated and added 3 new/fresh laid eggs to the incubator. I now have 50 eggs in the basket.
June 6, 2014.
It’s been 2 days and I have decided to check on the eggs to see any indications one way or another. I have been hand turning them 3 times a day but resisted candling until now. At this point, it is still too early to tell but I can swear I see something. Being unsure after candling 5 eggs I decide to give it another day.
June 7, 2014
I suspect out of the 50 I will have maximum of 15-25 good eggs and the rest will be culled due to their age or cracks and pips. Resisting the urge, I hold off candling until the nightly turning.
At 10:00 p.m I decide to start candling the eggs and have a bucket ready as I plan on culling over half of them. As I pick up the first egg, it is very obvious that there is a life form starting to take place. I can see blood vessels that look like a road map. What random luck and relief, the first pick is developing and obvious, this will make culling very easy! My luck continued as I picked up 4 or 5 more in a row, all of which showed viable signs of growth.
I know my luck was about to change as I moved towards the older looking eggs, especially those with cracks, pips and the one I dropped on the hard floor. In saying that I had to candle twice as I could not believe what I was seeing, all but 1 egg were viable and showing developments of growth!
June 8, 2014
I still cannot believe the outcome, so this morning I collected and added 8 more eggs to the batch. I even left a one in the nest as to keep the HEN moral high. If all hatch from my incubator and live that will be 58 chicks. I am still watching the 1 egg I said was not viable just to be sure.
I am now at 58 eggs.
June 9, 2014
I candled again today as I still cannot believe it that all eggs are developing. It is apparent that they are all alive and growing as I can start to see the black spot. I know some of these eggs set for over 25 days in the weather and nest!
Still, that old saying keeps echoing in my head....
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"
"Don't count your chicks before they hatch"!
June 10, 2014
This is the 6th day and I am not gonging to candle as I feel I am candle handling them too much. In saying that I did candle 3 that I suspect I will lose. The one I thought was not viable appears to be Cystic but I also see faint other lines. With the oddness of this first clutch I am going to give it another 24 hours. If I lose 3 that is still 95% success of eggs in which some are 15 days old or more, subjected to the months weather.
June 11, 2014
This morning I decided to move my productions to 95% and tossed the 3 eggs that were in question. It looked as if one would be deformed as there was a large air sack on one, the other being Cystic, and one infertile.
Still, of all the eggs being of various ages from 1 - 15+ days old, I consider that a good viable success rate.
Just to note however, neither of these 3 were the damaged eggs.
(Update)
Of the 3 eggs I culled, 1 was developing but looked milky, one was cystic, and the third was no development at all (not fertile/viable).
I am now at 55 eggs!
June 12-17, 2014
A lot has been happening the past 5 days, and after checking two or three eggs, they are getting to dark for my flashlight to candle. I will still give it a shot tomorrow maybe. I need a better candler.
The 14th really threw me off course as one of my dogs(sunny) tick collar (Preventic) came loose and my neighboring dog (Sam) in the next kennel decided that he would like to eat some of it.
Sam was very sick/poisoned but I was able to bring him around. It was an all day nervous exhausting event totally focused on bringing Sam out of his current state.
His symptoms were sever as he was producing long drools and was staggering and tripping over his own feet, his eyes bloodshot and all his actions were so uncoordinated I thought he was going to die. In his mindset, he would stare at objects as if he could not understand what he was looking at, and I suspected that his hearing or mind processing was retarded. It took harsh calls and much coaxing to get him to acknowledge my calling him, and then he was slow to respond. I train 3 ways, E-collars, voice commands and hand commands and he acted like he was not understanding or hearing the hand and voice commands (no e-collar on a sick baby).
Three interval doses (10cc each) of Hydrogen Peroxide over a two hour period worked equally well in inducing vomiting within the 5 minutes of ingestion. All together, I retrieved close to 2 inches of chewed up bits and pieces out of him. Also, I have to say I have never given a dog an enema before, but such does serve a necessity.
Sam drank lots of sugar water, force feeding/hand feeding all he would eat, and walking him every 30 minutes helped him to pass the smaller pieces deep within his intestines and flush his kidneys, as well as flush his intestines with water.
The whole point was to remove, empty, and flush him out, and saturate his body with liquids as to dilute the the toxins in his bowls. In short flush him empty and dilute... Not much could be done for what had already made it to his blood stream, thus a second reason for the sugar water, to keep his kidneys constantly flushing toxins rather than letting the kidneys accumulate them.
Sunday 6-15- 2014
Today was Fathers Day, so not much happened. Sam is back to his old self this morning, but I can tell a difference in his charisma. Up until 3:30 p.m. I walked Sam, and kept a close eye on his every move.
I love my 5 of my dogs like my children, but beyond that I have over a $1000.00 in each of my dogs alone. I be ****** if I will lose one to a dang tick collar. So today I super-glued each of their tick collar so that they cannot slip off.
Monday 6-16-2014
It does not pay to have your big brothers come to visit.
My big bro visited today, so after I dug a few post holes, we sat around and drank a few cold ones as the day heated up.
In such I lost 1 pheasant chick due to my stupidity. I let the dogs out after forgetting the chicks were out. I now have 3.
Tue 6-17-2014
Another fruitless day as I had to mow this 2.5 acre yard and go pick up some electrical materials. I also am designing a new lager coop based off of the old one (12 x 16). All I have time and energy for is feeding and watering.
Wed 6-18-2014
I did not do much to the eggs today other than rotate and turn them as usual. I spent too much time calculating my material list for the next pen to contain the upcoming covey of 57 quail. "Don't count your chicks before they hatch" is still echoing in my head but I have to prepare for the (((what looks like the strong possibility))) baby chick quail.
Giving up on the calculations. I decided to set some post and run 130 feet of electrical conduit and line. Not an easy thing to do in 90+ degree weather.
Thur 6-19-2014
I have decided I have wasted to much time designing and calculating materials for the pen, brooder box, and coops. Whats more I am nearing if not over the $400.00 mark in materials!
As for egg turning, I only turned them twice today (morning and Night) as I was busy shopping most of the evening.
I don't want to even admit how much I spent on these dang birds as I know I will never make the money back on them! Still, it is becoming a passion almost equal to my Llewellins which I have been neglecting their training and attention as the work was piling up.
Fri 6-20-2014
I got back on the egg turning tack today and its business as usual. However, I noticed the humidity took and dive over night so I brought the humidity up to 99% for a few hours hopping to counter/replenish any drying the eggs might have encountered.
The rest of the day was dedicated to my Llewellins, quail, and the 3 pheasant. I have to start the transfer pen and finish it tomorrow as the pheasant are starting to jump and fly out of the 2 foot high cardboard box. The will not stop growing just because I need to rest. I still have a few days to build the Brooder.
Inspecting the quail nest, I already have what looks to be about 60 or more eggs laying and going to waste. I will start them after I see what happens to this experimental batch. If all or a good percentage hatch, I will do it again.
I inspected some of the eggs in the pen and notice some extra calcium on the shells so I am watching the hens for any upcoming signs f sickness. I strongly think it is more due to the fact the siphon stopped and they went without water for about 6 hours while I was shopping. If not that or a combination of that and the higher temps, it is the oyster shell I have been adding to their feed.
Sat 6-21-2014
After all chores, (feeding and watering, birds, dogs, cleaning kennels, and turning eggs), I started working on building the finishing pen and Brooder box. I had both frames cut before my son come over to help.
It was around 95 today so we took it easy and came in for about 2 hours when the sun was 12:00 o'clock high, talked and drank a beer or two.
Due to the visiting, work and walking the dogs, the eggs only got turned 2 times again. The humidity dropped again so I boosted it back up to 99% as I feel the AC or the embryo's are starting to suck up the moisture. I feel it is more the embryo's as they are in a room that stays more humid as the temp is around 80 degrees.
Spite the fact that my AC has been running every day since I started incubating, my Incubator has been fairly consistent in temp and humidity, Now things are changing for no other reason other than embryo development.
I honestly believe the eggs/embryo's tell you more when they need more moisture than going by a calender of 25 days incubation, 21 days at 50% humidity and the last 3-6 days at 80-90% humidity.
Sun 6-22-2014
Spite the fact I do not like to work on Sundays, I still need to feed and do some finishing on the Finishing cage my Son and I built yesterday. On top of that I still have the dogs and other chores to tend to.
The eggs seem to be doing well and turning is back to normal, but I will stop turning on Wed or Thur as they will be coming due to hatch. My incubation temp has been a consistent 100 degrees and some my have developed quicker because of such.
10:00 pm update!
As I was looking in the incubator, I noticed some small brownish yellow noodle that was not there before. After inspection I found that an egg was badly cracked that started seeping. Also, I lost three more as to were blood rings and my flashlight hit the 3rd. The flashlight cracked egg was the of the last nine that I added on the 8th. Upon discarding I opened the egg and found that it was developing nicely and looked further along than 14 days. I may have some early hatches out of the batch.
What ever hatches will be a surprise based on the ages and conditions of the eggs before putting them in. I still suspect that this run will be around 4% success, but we will just have to wait and see.
As for the bad eggs, its all my fault for not candling but I have been doing a few things that has taken allot of my energy and time.
After recounting the eggs I now have 48 which I worried my count was off but I remember culling two one day but did not log them, after all the culls I now count 48 eggs.
Tuesday 6/24/14
Today is day 20 on 37 of the quail eggs, the others quail eggs are 3 @ day 19 and 8@ day 16. In such I have decided to go ahead and stop turning 40 of the eggs (dated 6/4 & 6/5 2014). The other 8 will still present a problem as they will need to be turned for 4 to 5 more days while the others are pippin and hatching. Since the eggs are in lock-down I do not want to open the door any more until I have too as to keep the humidity high so I have come up with the following.
My devised plan is to take a pencil eraser or maybe some duct tape (reversed) and attach it to one end of my aluminum arrow shafts and navigate the terrain thorough a small hole in the Styrofoam. Then I can just twist the arrow shaft or make small side to side movements as needed. That should allow me to turn the needed eggs. Also, if needed this will allow me to move or remove any shell that seems to be hindered others during pippin or hatching without opening the door and lowering the humidity.
Since there would be only 8 eggs to turn, I doubt that such a quick loss of humidity would really have an effect, but I rater not take that chance as the 37 eggs are questionable already (due to their age and weathering). Besides, excluding any early and late hatches I expect whatever the hatching to take place over a period of 3 days due to the 6/4 and 6/5 dated eggs.
As of 10:30 last night I robed the nest of the eggs that the quail have been laying since 6/9/14 when I emptied the nest of all but 1 egg.. This morning I found 2 more and the day is still going. All together, I counted 70 eggs. None of the eggs were brown and speckled as I have seen from photos of Coturnix quail so I suspect that 4-5 of my hens are laying (70 /16 days= 4.66…7). I have not found that 0.66…7 egg as of yet but I did multiply that by 15 days and I came up with 9.9999 eggs, so I suspect there is a 5th hen laying at least every 2 days fairly consistently.
Now I am looking for that 0.9999 egg so I can wax it shut!
6/25/14
After looking to find some cheaper ways of feeding and getting a higher protein game bird food (opposed to the 20% crap at coop and a Starter higher than 24%), I called my local feed mill. They were happy and very reasonable to mix me up a batch of Milo and soybean at 30% protein. I plan on giving it to all my birds. I picked up some extra soy bean mill and will mix it with the 20 and 24 % commercial stuff. I also have 5 lbs of whole sorghum seed, which might or might not be Milo, that I have been adding as a Bonus for when they are good and lay eggs.
The stuff I picked up today is all ground mill but I think I can make it into a granule or pellet for the adults using the techniques implemented in making black powder.
- Just make a paste out of the mix and use a 1/8 to 1/4 wire mesh screen and press it through.
- Let it sun dry or place in a warm spot to evaporate most of the moisture.
I could have got a bushel of whole soybean but I was afraid that it might be the strain that was to large for the birds to eat. I kind of wish I went ahead and got it ($23.00 for about 55 lbs) as I think I can crush it down myself if needed.
I found out the protein levels of the grains, which are:
Milo - 9%
Soybean- 37%
from this web site,
http://www.avianaquamiser.com/posts/Protein_content_in_chicken_feed_ingredients/
and plan on using this to make my own using the local mill.
I got home around 6:00 pm today and took a quick peep in the incubator. No chicks, but I am seeing little raised flakes of shell on 8 or more eggs. Some I cannot even say if they were not part of the shell to begin with but most are obviously pips.
It is obvious what is about to happen
My brooder box is semi- ready as I picked up the final hardware that I forgot. It will take maybe an hour to finish.
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