eyp treatment or pain relief for hen???

[Chiknsrcool]

I think my hen has egg yolk peritonitis because she was waddling a few weeks ago and layed a shell less egg. she is now lethargic and has lost a lot of weight and her tummy is making gurgling sounds but she has stopped waddling. I have been giving her oregano and cinnamon tea and I just gave her a tiny bit of baby aspirin in water but I’m not sure if I should give her more. Is there hope for her and if so what else can I do? If not is there anything I can do to make sure she isn’t in pain? We might take her to the vet if she makes it through the night but I tried to put her up on the roost with her friends and she fell right off and just layed there so I don’t think it’s looking too good. I gave her some tomatoes and she is eating those so at least there’s that. I just don’t want her to be in pain.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry about your hen.
Is it the same one from the previous 3 threads you made? (links and photo below)

Sadly, hens with reproductive problems can seem to get better for a period of time only to decline again. If she's having difficulties again, then she may pull through for a few days only to get worse again.
I'm very sorry, I've never found a solution to any of the reproductive problems hens can have. You can offer comfort and supportive care, but at some point their condition will overtake them.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-waddling-with-tail-to-the-ground.1570398/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/please-help-hen-waddling-with-tail-to-the-ground.1570415/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-not-eating-but-still-has-energy.1574655/

March 24th photo you posted

 

[Chiknsrcool]

I'm sorry about your hen.
Is it the same one from the previous 3 threads you made? (links and photo below)

Sadly, hens with reproductive problems can seem to get better for a period of time only to decline again. If she's having difficulties again, then she may pull through for a few days only to get worse again.
I'm very sorry, I've never found a solution to any of the reproductive problems hens can have. You can offer comfort and supportive care, but at some point their condition will overtake them.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-waddling-with-tail-to-the-ground.1570398/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/please-help-hen-waddling-with-tail-to-the-ground.1570415/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-not-eating-but-still-has-energy.1574655/

March 24th photo you posted

yes it’s the same hen. thank you for responding we are taking her to the vet tomorrow if she makes it through the night so they might be able to give her comfort but for now we are just going to do everything we can until she passes

 

[ChknMama50]

Hi- hate to bring up a sore subject if this adorable little girl has passed....
But wondering what happened??... I read all your threads that @Wyorp Rock posted above....

I'd have assumed the photo with her leaning her head on the wall :-( was Thurs night when you posted this most recent one....but I saw it from further back and was shocked to hear she did "OK" so long after this photo. So was wondering what you did since March 24th til this post to help her... Did the vet see her today (well Friday)?

I'm sorry if you've lost her and I'm bringing up a sad subject but it really does help others to learn from your experience- knowing the outcome and any suggestions made might help others....

I'm curious personally, as I have an one- the one looking at you in my avatar who's been dealing with what I've suspected is internal laying and resultant EYP...

Thought we'd actually beat the odds and she's been doing quite well- all normal other than still not laying... (did have an "Easter miracle" egg - her only one since a very rough fall molt that I'm aware of...?! I know... but had to be her! But hasn't even looked at the boxes that I've seen since... would be fine by me but unfortunately it's not that easy!

SO, noticed Thursday she started to show a tiny bit of yellow in the white part of her poop again... nothing like before! but did see some poop sticking to her usually clean fluffy butt again....and, though barely perceptible if I wasn't watching her so closely, seems to be MAYBE getting a bigger belly again and possibly slowing down a bit- not eating quite as eagerly... She was NOT being weighed today so I let her be ;-) haha


I've been giving her a "golden paste" Turmeric mixture to help with inflammation as suggested by another member since the Meloxicam seemed to possibly cause her to really lose her appetite... plus not really a good long term solution....She won't eat anything with the Turmeric in it , so had to get sneaky ;-) and gradually add it to their fermented food that they get at least 4 days a week... mixing it in in slightly larger amts as it's for all 5 of them eating from it....(they could each benefit too so it's good...)

She's been doing so surprisingly well... was back to her normal weight since before I even finished her antibiotics, and has been "head down tail up" every day even in the run- seeming to be scratching around for any extra morsels to be found... and eating/drinking well. Used to do OK in run but not truly perk up until she got out to roam the yard and happily forage...
They did get another 10 day course of ACS- due to my other EE'er who has been battling a tough case of sour crop (that also got a bit impacted for a bit too) but appears to have finally gotten over it- she's been perky as well- finally has a better looking comb and is actually LAYING!! Finally!! (Been since fall molt as well I think)
So I've been backing off a bit and watching more without constantly pulling them both aside to weigh and assess them.... if they can run that fast to avoid me, I figure they're doing pretty good! -comparatively at least- as they both let me pick them up no problem when feeling poorly....
Anyway Woodsy is still not laying but showing no interest in the boxes at all... so doesn't appear to be egg bound or struggling... assuming it's internal laying and then the peritonitis that I thought we'd beaten... for now at least... Did give her one warm ES bath when she still had a swollen belly and seemed to be not feeling too good... really did seem to help her perk up a bit and can't hurt so might have to try that again soon if this getting worse again...

I know this can be chronic- so that's why I've been watching her but curious what else I can do short of starting antibiotics again... I hate to do it prophylactically.... but if she does start to swell and show the yellow poop, then it's actually possibly infected again, no??
or so it seems to me..... know it's a bit of a guessing game as to whether the yolk has caused an infection or not but know that it's a perfect medium to feed bacteria- E.Coli especially... from all my reading at least ;-) so it's not a far reach to assume so if she swells up and starts actling like she was before...
SOOO ;-) @Wyorp Rock (and any others), any advice??

Given what you wrote above, I know I'm probably asking for a miracle but I've talked to others who have been dealing with this on and off for quite some time- just want to be sure I'm doing all I can for her until I can do no more... and make sure I'm not simply forgetting something basic/essential that could help...

She's only possibly showing some signs of having a problem again... I'd love to get her the hormone implant to hopefully keep this from happening again...Talking to a member in England privately who just got it for one of her hens dealing with it and waiting to see how she does- as it's only been a couple days... Know it's supposed to be "uber" expensive- but was wondering if anyone has an actual ballpark amount??? ;-) Wish you could give them hormones orally to effect the same outcome... but obviously if that worked, someone would have done it by now!! ;-)

Appreciate any help and input.... and any answers about the poor little hen in this thread.... She has been loved- that much is clear!!

(also sorry to post in an incorrect place if I am- but wanted to reference specifically the comment made by @Wyorp Rock...)

 

[Wyorp Rock]

(also sorry to post in an incorrect place if I am- but wanted to reference specifically the comment made by @Wyorp Rock...)

Which comment?

 

[ChknMama50]

Which comment?

I'm sorry about your hen.
Is it the same one from the previous 3 threads you made? (links and photo below)

Sadly, hens with reproductive problems can seem to get better for a period of time only to decline again. If she's having difficulties again, then she may pull through for a few days only to get worse again.
I'm very sorry, I've never found a solution to any of the reproductive problems hens can have. You can offer comfort and supportive care, but at some point their condition will overtake them.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-waddling-with-tail-to-the-ground.1570398/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/please-help-hen-waddling-with-tail-to-the-ground.1570415/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-not-eating-but-still-has-energy.1574655/

March 24th photo you posted

Sorry- had some human emergencies around here so I've not been on here in a bit!!
I don't know how to pick out specific pieces of a quote without the pics etc. ... just hit the "+quote" button and this is how it came up....
Anyway- with above, I'm referring to your comment about not finding any real treatment or long term solutions....
My girl did great after I used "Liquamycin LA-200" (long acting Oxytetracycline 200mg/ml) SQ on her (just about 1.2cc's on back of her neck between her wings) for a total of approx 12 days coverage (one dose was much less so repeated one a day early thus the "approx" and counting the days she was covered after last dose as long acting). She got one warm bath with a good 1 1/2 cups of Epsom Salts up past her belly for at least 20 min...

She got only about 3-4 doses of Meloxicam as she really lost interest in eating or drinking and someone suggested that MIGHT be the cause and she did pick up eating after stopping it- but also responded quite noticeably to the antibiotic so ?? could have been due to that..

So, I'm not completely against using it again if suggested/needed. I've been trying instead to get Turmeric in her regularly by putting the 'Golden paste' I made from a vet's recipe online (cooking powder w/ water and adding in a good amt of freshly cracked black pepper and coconut oil all for better absorption) in their fermented food that they get around 4 days a week... could NOT get her to eat it in anything separately...
Not sure how much she gets exactly but... they can all make use of it to be sure!

Biggest concern now is I'm seeing yellow in her poop again for going on a week or so now... was ready to jump into action but realized I had no idea what to really do and didn't want to give her antibiotics until and unless she showed more signs of truly having peritonitis again- not just internally laying...

Has seemed just a BIT "off" (a tiny bit slower, standing still a tiny bit more when not out of the run, maybe eating a tiny bit less...that kinda thing). Today from a distance she looks a bit more swollen but I was wrong a couple days ago- thought for sure she'd was getting bigger and put on weight in her belly- but it felt fine and her weight was fine so I'm trying not to jump the gun....Guess I'm a tad bit paranoid!

When she was at her worst, the yellow 'discharge' was SIGNIFIANT in my opinion- and now it's just yellow tinged on the urate portion of her poop but still fairly normal otherwise- not nearly as runny or loose at it was... photos are in my orig. post about her...

I can certainly include those again along with new ones when I am going out now.... usually go out in afternoon due to my own health but watch them from house as needed with binoculars ;-) Also works out to get them out of the run for a couple hours before bedtime while I clean up and hang out with them.

Really just two questions-

1. Do you (and others) agree with repeating antibiotics only if (/when ) she develops all or most of the same symptoms as before?
Plan to switch to Baytril if/when required...?leaning towards still using as injection vs. oral due to efficacy facing such a nasty infection... still researching...but input appreciated.

2. Is there ANYthing else to try- other than maybe repeating the warm Epsom Salt bath that also seemed to help her?? Right now, she doesn't appear to be eating a whole lot but none of them are- they're not the biggest fans of their pellets so on days when there is no fermented food they tend to "hold out" it seems hoping for better... But they're much healthier this way so I'm doing it again!

Appreciate any input!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Anyway- with above, I'm referring to your comment about not finding any real treatment or long term solutions....

It's up to you as the keeper what treatment(s) you wish to continue and try and how much you want to put the hen through. There's no cure for reproductive disorders.
Addressing symptoms as they arise and providing supportive care and comfort can include administering antibiotics if you deem them necessary.

As you have found it seems, medications can make them feel a bit better for a time, but once again they will eventually start to decline or telltale symptoms of the underlying condition will start to appear.

Repeating antibiotics, that's up to you, eventually they will not work or she will still decline in spite of them. So again, it's up to you to decide what's the best course of treatment.
Baytril is a very good strong antibiotic, some give it orally, others by injection so whatever you are comfortable with.

I don't know of anything else to try. Warm soaks if she's not stressed by them won't hurt.
Soaking the feed overnight or for just a few hours can often make it more palatable, you can try that.

1. Do you (and others) agree with repeating antibiotics only if (/when ) she develops all or most of the same symptoms as before?
Plan to switch to Baytril if/when required...?leaning towards still using as injection vs. oral due to efficacy facing such a nasty infection... still researching...but input appreciated.

2. Is there ANYthing else to try- other than maybe repeating the warm Epsom Salt bath that also seemed to help her?? Right now, she doesn't appear to be eating a whole lot but none of them are- they're not the biggest fans of their pellets so on days when there is no fermented food they tend to "hold out" it seems hoping for better... But they're much healthier this way so I'm doing it again!

 

[ChknMama50]

Wasn't sure I should even reply on this one.... "how much I should put the hen through"??
Yikes...
Yes- treating things as they come up seems to ME the only responsible option...was just looking for actual real world experience as to when most restart/repeat more traditional treatments.
I supposed you are inferring the other options others would choose would be to personally "cull" her or take her to a vet to be euthanized....though we weren't even using a vet to help with problems yet as that wasn't in our plans initially and I'd been able to tolerate and treat her thus far and was only considering it if I could get Deslorelin implant to stop her/their ovulation at a reasonable cost- which I've not ascertained yet- only read "very expensive". (So taking her there to have her euthanized is not really an option! I suppose I'd have to take that on myself as well...and will if need be! for her!)

Anyway, appreciate the info again- pretty much what is on here repeatedly- but I was just asking, I guess, if anyone here has done further research on newer or the newest interventions to treat this if not heal it! I'd like to keep her as happy as I've been able to keep her thus far! Trust me- I'm not 'putting her thru' anything- she's going thru it due to what was done to her LONG before she hatched or I got involved- evidently... which I didn't know until long after getting them- not exactly something they advertise!

I'm well aware that internet/written communication can leave something to be desired in the way of being able to infer intent and tone- I certainly don't mean to have a negative either- and will assume you did not either- think it just seems to be a rather accepted thing here... "nothing you can do" and that trying or thinking otherwise is somehow selfish by the owner...?!

I've been in contact directly with owners all over including the UK and seems some have had some pretty decent responses to not only the implants but other interventions that have kept their chickens happy and able to avoid the worst side effects/outcomes for some time...
My efforts are for her/them...not for me! Trust me- it is not an easy thing to deal with...and has taken a good amount of time... but I signed up kind of like a marriage- ;-) In sickness and in health- the good and the bad!! as I always do when I take on the care of an animal as a pet!!

Thanks again.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Wasn't sure I should even reply on this one.... "how much I should put the hen through"??
Yikes...
Yes- treating things as they come up seems to ME the only responsible option...was just looking for actual real world experience as to when most restart/repeat more traditional treatments.
I supposed you are inferring the other options others would choose would be to personally "cull" her or take her to a vet to be euthanized....though we weren't even using a vet to help with problems yet as that wasn't in our plans initially and I'd been able to tolerate and treat her thus far and was only considering it if I could get Deslorelin implant to stop her/their ovulation at a reasonable cost- which I've not ascertained yet- only read "very expensive". (So taking her there to have her euthanized is not really an option! I suppose I'd have to take that on myself as well...and will if need be! for her!)

Anyway, appreciate the info again- pretty much what is on here repeatedly- but I was just asking, I guess, if anyone here has done further research on newer or the newest interventions to treat this if not heal it! I'd like to keep her as happy as I've been able to keep her thus far! Trust me- I'm not 'putting her thru' anything- she's going thru it due to what was done to her LONG before she hatched or I got involved- evidently... which I didn't know until long after getting them- not exactly something they advertise!

I'm well aware that internet/written communication can leave something to be desired in the way of being able to infer intent and tone- I certainly don't mean to have a negative either- and will assume you did not either- think it just seems to be a rather accepted thing here... "nothing you can do" and that trying or thinking otherwise is somehow selfish by the owner...?!

I've been in contact directly with owners all over including the UK and seems some have had some pretty decent responses to not only the implants but other interventions that have kept their chickens happy and able to avoid the worst side effects/outcomes for some time...
My efforts are for her/them...not for me! Trust me- it is not an easy thing to deal with...and has taken a good amount of time... but I signed up kind of like a marriage- ;-) In sickness and in health- the good and the bad!! as I always do when I take on the care of an animal as a pet!!

Thanks again.

Thank you for the update and reply.

I wish you well.

 

[ChknMama50]

Thank you for the update and reply.

I wish you well.

Thank you!