BrindleFinch
Songster
I originally started this conversation with @KikisGirls , and she suggested starting a thread about it, which I thought was a pretty good idea, since more brains are always better than just one!
I'll try to boil my question down to the simplest phrasing possible since it's kind of a loaded one. When feed ferments, the proteins are said to break down into amino acids. While amino acids are extremely essential to all life, some in excess (such as lysine, I believe, from what I've read) have been related to weight gain, diabetes, etc. Eggs as they are are said to have a great balance of the 9 amino acids essential for human life, "Adequate dietary protein intake must include all the essential amino acids your body needs daily. The egg boasts them all: histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine. These amino acids are present in a pattern that matches very closely the pattern the human body needs," taken from here.
Studies have shown, though, that making bread with corn - an ingredient most of our chickens' feed is based on - increases or skews the ratio of all amino acids within it, except for threonine. Although whether this is related to the fermentation process bread undergoes or the breakdown via heat is unclear to me.
Kiki found these studies that seem to imply, to my untrained brain, that broilers not only become heavier on fermented feed, but because of how feed is formulated these days, more of that weight will be solid muscle - which protein intake directly contributes to, of course.
Often times we humans don't use fermenting as a health enhancer for ourselves - rather, we use it to help food last longer or for our own fun such as in wines and other liquors. I am interested in the possibility that there is a superior grain to ferment. What grain breaks down into the best amino acids when fermented, for our chickens, and for us?
I am interested whether or not fermenting different feeds alters the nutritional / growth value of meat and eggs. I.e., are the amino acids in a fermented corn-based diet more beneficial to growth and health overall than those in, say, an oat based fermented diet?
I ask because when the digestive system is simply given proteins, solid carbs, etc., it can often synthesize or break these down into what the chicken specifically needs in specific ratios. When feeding fermented, the yeast breaks the food down into different ratios. I am curious as to whether there is a specific formula out there that, when fermented, is a superior feed product both in terms of food consumption via the chicken (i.e., a proper balance of easier to digest amino acids provided by the yeast) and via us (i.e., the balance of essential vs nonessential amino acids in the meat and eggs a chicken on different fermented feed give).
Please note I do not mean to imply in any way that fermenting feed will unbalance a diet at all. I have seen the studies that show real benefits in fermented feed, and do not mean to imply that the change in nutritional value would be so drastic it would deprive or flood the chicken of/with different amino acids. Yet, from the standpoint of looking at eggs/meat nutritionally, the balance of amino acids is better if it is more essential amino acids and less nonessential amino acids - however small the difference may be. Even if it is only .01% higher in an amino acid, this can be either good (in the case of those we don't produce at all and need lots of in our diet) or bad (if we don't need that particular amino acid in extra amounts, for example if our bodies make it naturally.)
I hope I was clear enough, if you need me to explain myself please let me know, I'm sorry if this was a bit hard to comprehend.
I'll try to boil my question down to the simplest phrasing possible since it's kind of a loaded one. When feed ferments, the proteins are said to break down into amino acids. While amino acids are extremely essential to all life, some in excess (such as lysine, I believe, from what I've read) have been related to weight gain, diabetes, etc. Eggs as they are are said to have a great balance of the 9 amino acids essential for human life, "Adequate dietary protein intake must include all the essential amino acids your body needs daily. The egg boasts them all: histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine. These amino acids are present in a pattern that matches very closely the pattern the human body needs," taken from here.
Studies have shown, though, that making bread with corn - an ingredient most of our chickens' feed is based on - increases or skews the ratio of all amino acids within it, except for threonine. Although whether this is related to the fermentation process bread undergoes or the breakdown via heat is unclear to me.
Kiki found these studies that seem to imply, to my untrained brain, that broilers not only become heavier on fermented feed, but because of how feed is formulated these days, more of that weight will be solid muscle - which protein intake directly contributes to, of course.
Often times we humans don't use fermenting as a health enhancer for ourselves - rather, we use it to help food last longer or for our own fun such as in wines and other liquors. I am interested in the possibility that there is a superior grain to ferment. What grain breaks down into the best amino acids when fermented, for our chickens, and for us?
I am interested whether or not fermenting different feeds alters the nutritional / growth value of meat and eggs. I.e., are the amino acids in a fermented corn-based diet more beneficial to growth and health overall than those in, say, an oat based fermented diet?
I ask because when the digestive system is simply given proteins, solid carbs, etc., it can often synthesize or break these down into what the chicken specifically needs in specific ratios. When feeding fermented, the yeast breaks the food down into different ratios. I am curious as to whether there is a specific formula out there that, when fermented, is a superior feed product both in terms of food consumption via the chicken (i.e., a proper balance of easier to digest amino acids provided by the yeast) and via us (i.e., the balance of essential vs nonessential amino acids in the meat and eggs a chicken on different fermented feed give).
Please note I do not mean to imply in any way that fermenting feed will unbalance a diet at all. I have seen the studies that show real benefits in fermented feed, and do not mean to imply that the change in nutritional value would be so drastic it would deprive or flood the chicken of/with different amino acids. Yet, from the standpoint of looking at eggs/meat nutritionally, the balance of amino acids is better if it is more essential amino acids and less nonessential amino acids - however small the difference may be. Even if it is only .01% higher in an amino acid, this can be either good (in the case of those we don't produce at all and need lots of in our diet) or bad (if we don't need that particular amino acid in extra amounts, for example if our bodies make it naturally.)
I hope I was clear enough, if you need me to explain myself please let me know, I'm sorry if this was a bit hard to comprehend.
