Hobby breeding and general fertility Qs

[Stephanie8806]

OKAY! Chick season is fast approaching and I think it’s fair to say we’re all SUPER excited

This is our first year with a rooster, and I’m super excited at the prospect of getting some backyard blends! Our first year(and all my experience growing up) we just bought live chicks. Last year, we did a combination of live chicks and home incubated shipped eggs. This year, I’m hoping to hatch from our existing flock under some Cochins that went broody in the fall. If they don’t go broody again, I’d probably try to incubate some since that is so much dang fun!

That being said, I have lots of questions, and wanted to create a board where all you knowledgeable folks could chime in, and where others like me could learn! This is just my intro post, so I’ll post my questions below. Excited to learn!

 

[Stephanie8806]

1. Besides breaking open an egg to check for a blastoderm, is there any other way to check for fertility?

2. Once a rooster has successfully mated a hen, how long will her eggs be fertile for? I assume it can’t be one for one of you test by breaking eggs in the first place…

3. How many eggs is a good amount to put under one hen? I don’t want to cram too many in there, but I’d like to have more than one or two per broody.

4. What’s the max amount of days you should add new eggs before stopping? I know hatch times can vary, and I also assume that broody hens won’t just stay sitting on a late egg when they have littles to wrangle.

5. I know this is probably personal preference, but do you candle eggs when hatching under a hen?

 

[Shezadandy]

You can tell within 2-3 days of incubating an egg whether it's fertile. If you're eating breakfast of course breaking it open is a great way to know, but generally they should all be fertile. Worst case, if there's no development by day 3-4, you know it's not fertile. A single mating can produce fertile eggs for up to 3 weeks believe it or not. I'd probably stick with a week or two as a rule of thumb.

How many eggs will depend on the broody. I've had big hens that make me scratch my head as to why they can only manage 5 and little hens that somehow wrangle a dozen. Watch for eggs that aren't covered. Remember that a hen will rotate her eggs around constantly, so if there's too many- every egg will eventually end up in the cold. So really it's a matter of that hen and watching what she does.

I absolutely candle broody incubated eggs, but you need to weigh this against the broody's personality- if she's pecking you and stomping around when you reach in, you could loose eggs to her damage (the ones she thinks she's protecting!)

I always add mine the same day, max 1 day later. I find my broody incubated eggs start to pip around day 18 or 19 and most are hatched by day 20. The very first one to hatch has invariably been a cockerel, except when I had two great hatches of 3 girls. Get together your ideal eggs and stick with those.

Also - have a separate spot where momma hen can't be bothered by the others. It can be as simple as closing off the front of her nest so others can't get in- just be sure you let her out once a day and wait for her to come back. If you leave them open with the flock - the hen can be bullied off her nest, she can forget which nest is hers and leave her live eggs for another nest - even after you think she's settled to that location- others can enter the nest adding their eggs which means you have to bother her every day to look for the fresh eggs - and worst of all, if there's stomping around and fighting, you can come out to find your partially developed eggs broken and the non-broken ones slathered in nasty-ness. And they may then be stuck to the underside of the hen, necessitating a long warm water soak. (ask me how I know)

 

[Stephanie8806]

You can tell within 2-3 days of incubating an egg whether it's fertile. If you're eating breakfast of course breaking it open is a great way to know, but generally they should all be fertile. Worst case, if there's no development by day 3-4, you know it's not fertile. A single mating can produce fertile eggs for up to 3 weeks believe it or not. I'd probably stick with a week or two as a rule of thumb.

How many eggs will depend on the broody. I've had big hens that make me scratch my head as to why they can only manage 5 and little hens that somehow wrangle a dozen. Watch for eggs that aren't covered. Remember that a hen will rotate her eggs around constantly, so if there's too many- every egg will eventually end up in the cold. So really it's a matter of that hen and watching what she does.

I absolutely candle broody incubated eggs, but you need to weigh this against the broody's personality- if she's pecking you and stomping around when you reach in, you could loose eggs to her damage (the ones she thinks she's protecting!)

I always add mine the same day, max 1 day later. I find my broody incubated eggs start to pip around day 18 or 19 and most are hatched by day 20. The very first one to hatch has invariably been a cockerel, except when I had two great hatches of 3 girls. Get together your ideal eggs and stick with those.

Also - have a separate spot where momma hen can't be bothered by the others. It can be as simple as closing off the front of her nest so others can't get in- just be sure you let her out once a day and wait for her to come back. If you leave them open with the flock - the hen can be bullied off her nest, she can forget which nest is hers and leave her live eggs for another nest - even after you think she's settled to that location- others can enter the nest adding their eggs which means you have to bother her every day to look for the fresh eggs - and worst of all, if there's stomping around and fighting, you can come out to find your partially developed eggs broken and the non-broken ones slathered in nasty-ness. And they may then be stuck to the underside of the hen, necessitating a long warm water soak. (ask me how I know)

Thank you so much for that super thorough reply!!!!

Good point on the early candling to check for fertility… and yes, it’s amazing that a single mating can be effective for that long! So cool! I have had a hard time finding any info online about that particular facet of breeding. I’m planning to candle just a few times, and I figured nighttime would be the best bet at not riling up the mamas. Also nice and dark so that I get a clear candling.

I was hoping to get 4-6 under each hen, so that’s encouraging. I’ll certainly play it by ear. They’re big fluffy Cochins so that number should be nice and comfy for them to handle. And yes, I was planning on having them partitioned off in some way. My current nesting boxes are elevated so I wouldn’t want a little chickie to tumble out! I was going to partition part of the coop and provide the mamas with their own food and water source. Last year, I brooded my babies in the main coop at about 3 weeks of age, partitioning them off from the rest of the flock with removable chicken wire walls. Then they’re separate, but not at the same time. Eventually I’ll be building small brooding coop and mini run off the side of the main run, but as I’m currently 35 weeks pregnant myself, I’m sure that’s a next year endeavor

Also great input about only 1 or two days for egg sourcing. I have 10 hens, so I should have plenty to choose from.

And thanks for the bonus tips! Hoping that my coop partition will keep the violence to a minimum.

 

[Shezadandy]

Thank you so much for that super thorough reply!!!!

Good point on the early candling to check for fertility… and yes, it’s amazing that a single mating can be effective for that long! So cool! I have had a hard time finding any info online about that particular facet of breeding. I’m planning to candle just a few times, and I figured nighttime would be the best bet at not riling up the mamas. Also nice and dark so that I get a clear candling.

I was hoping to get 4-6 under each hen, so that’s encouraging. I’ll certainly play it by ear. They’re big fluffy Cochins so that number should be nice and comfy for them to handle. And yes, I was planning on having them partitioned off in some way. My current nesting boxes are elevated so I wouldn’t want a little chickie to tumble out! I was going to partition part of the coop and provide the mamas with their own food and water source. Last year, I brooded my babies in the main coop at about 3 weeks of age, partitioning them off from the rest of the flock with removable chicken wire walls. Then they’re separate, but not at the same time. Eventually I’ll be building small brooding coop and mini run off the side of the main run, but as I’m currently 35 weeks pregnant myself, I’m sure that’s a next year endeavor

Also great input about only 1 or two days for egg sourcing. I have 10 hens, so I should have plenty to choose from.

And thanks for the bonus tips! Hoping that my coop partition will keep the violence to a minimum.

LOL Yes that will be quite the challenge, maternity ward inside and out! Lots of new life to love!

4-6 should be just fine. The main thing to watch is she's covering them all. Also, mark your hatching eggs- I put numbers on mine. First time I didn't ... the egg got taken to another nest, got refrigerated and landed in the frying pan ... not too developed and fortunately wasn't still alive -- I mention this so you can avoid it!

The partitions sound really good- you may need to upgrade the bottom foot of your wire partitions to 1/2" hardware cloth because days old chicks are small and slithery enough to slip through the bigger sections of chicken wire. And not being so very smart at that age, getting back to mom isn't a given.

If one gets lost and into the wrong area, the flock can absolutely do it in - another broody could either steal it (not a huge deal) or take the "I'm not your momma get out" stance. And they'll literally stand there and let it happen instead of trying to get away in those first days.

The other thing to keep in mind is not all hens who brood well will make good mothers and accept their chicks. Have a backup brooder prepared and standing by because ya just never know. For the most part things go really well, but I've had ones that pick up their newly hatched chicks and fling them and then reject them. Or are clearly apprehensive when those bodies start to wriggle and by morning they've said "NOPE".

Since my first bad experience (really minimal, but it does happen), I started at minimum using a baby monitor starting around day 17 and listening in/watching. Actually now I move mine to crates and keep them within earshot in the house (dubbed "the chicken room") because going up and down stairs frequently got really old and the knees rebelled. Then once everyone's hatched and I know the hen is solid in her mothering committment, they go to their own section of the coop, much as you've described.

Maybe consider making (or repurposing) a private nesting area within your wire partitions, can be as simple as an old plastic 12x12 crate turned on its side - they tend to like to have their own private cubby/covered spot to retreat to.

I keep mine in their private area until the chicks have become a little more savvy and a little quicker, smart enough to get out of the way if mom gets in a dust-up with the flock, usually by day 7ish unless the weather is stinky.

I then make sure momma and babies come back to their private area at night so I know everyone is safe overnight and gets a good feeding before it's time to go out. By the 3 week mark generally everything has calmed down with the flock and mom may start to get them up to the perch. I start leaving everything open so they can come and go (baby monitor again!) as they please.

I've had hens wean them at 3-4 weeks all the way through 3 months. I've had broodies steal babies - usually it's one hen that takes them all, regardless of age. And sometimes they will coparent which is always really neat. And in most cases, (in my broody rich flock) if one decides she's not going to take her chicks, someone else will do it, but that's a whole other conversation that comes down to timing.

 

[Stephanie8806]

LOL Yes that will be quite the challenge, maternity ward inside and out! Lots of new life to love!

4-6 should be just fine. The main thing to watch is she's covering them all. Also, mark your hatching eggs- I put numbers on mine. First time I didn't ... the egg got taken to another nest, got refrigerated and landed in the frying pan ... not too developed and fortunately wasn't still alive -- I mention this so you can avoid it!

The partitions sound really good- you may need to upgrade the bottom foot of your wire partitions to 1/2" hardware cloth because days old chicks are small and slithery enough to slip through the bigger sections of chicken wire. And not being so very smart at that age, getting back to mom isn't a given.

If one gets lost and into the wrong area, the flock can absolutely do it in - another broody could either steal it (not a huge deal) or take the "I'm not your momma get out" stance. And they'll literally stand there and let it happen instead of trying to get away in those first days.

The other thing to keep in mind is not all hens who brood well will make good mothers and accept their chicks. Have a backup brooder prepared and standing by because ya just never know. For the most part things go really well, but I've had ones that pick up their newly hatched chicks and fling them and then reject them. Or are clearly apprehensive when those bodies start to wriggle and by morning they've said "NOPE".

Since my first bad experience (really minimal, but it does happen), I started at minimum using a baby monitor starting around day 17 and listening in/watching. Actually now I move mine to crates and keep them within earshot in the house (dubbed "the chicken room") because going up and down stairs frequently got really old and the knees rebelled. Then once everyone's hatched and I know the hen is solid in her mothering committment, they go to their own section of the coop, much as you've described.

Maybe consider making (or repurposing) a private nesting area within your wire partitions, can be as simple as an old plastic 12x12 crate turned on its side - they tend to like to have their own private cubby/covered spot to retreat to.

I keep mine in their private area until the chicks have become a little more savvy and a little quicker, smart enough to get out of the way if mom gets in a dust-up with the flock, usually by day 7ish unless the weather is stinky.

I then make sure momma and babies come back to their private area at night so I know everyone is safe overnight and gets a good feeding before it's time to go out. By the 3 week mark generally everything has calmed down with the flock and mom may start to get them up to the perch. I start leaving everything open so they can come and go (baby monitor again!) as they please.

I've had hens wean them at 3-4 weeks all the way through 3 months. I've had broodies steal babies - usually it's one hen that takes them all, regardless of age. And sometimes they will coparent which is always really neat. And in most cases, (in my broody rich flock) if one decides she's not going to take her chicks, someone else will do it, but that's a whole other conversation that comes down to timing.

All very thought provoking input!

My partitions weren’t chicken wire, they were a soft landscaping mesh type material that we had laying around… smaller openings than chicken wire, but still. I’ll have to check the opening size!

My coop is off grid, and we don’t have wifi, so sadly I wouldn’t be able to put a baby monitor in there. We run an extension cord up to power our little mama substitute heat plate during brooding, but I don’t want a million cords going up there(and it’s roughly 300 feet from the house). I have two Cochin hens that will likely go broody, but as it’s their first year, their mothering skills are indeed unknown. If I put nesting boxes in the brooding area, do you think I should partition them from each other, or would placing the boxes far enough apart be sufficient? The brooding area is L shaped, so they’d actually be several feet apart.

It’s tough… with a baby of my own on the way, and being uncertain of how my due date and broodiness will line up, it’s really hard to be sure I could supervise them as much as may be needed. I’d probably either have to wait until next year to try this process, or just hope that it all works out and deal with potential losses. It’s funny, for a process that seems like it should be pretty straightforward, it sure does get complicated!! I guess it’s just a gamble. High reward, if the mamas are good mamas and can do the work for you, but high risk to put your trust in a chicken

I’d likely take the Mamas out around the two week mark. By that point, the chicks should have learned food and water habits and could transition under the heater plate. Last year, we were able to integrate the new chicks into the flock pretty fully around 8 weeks. It was surprisingly smooth, having them brooded in coop had the older chickens acclimated to them pretty well. And by that age, they were certainly old enough to scamper away when necessary. We have a large run with plenty of obstacles and hiding opportunities, so that helps. I would also supervise run time for the first few days. One thing that I think helped a lot was letting the older chickens out to free range and leaving the young chickens in the run to get confidence and lay of the land. It seemed to help, as both groups got sufficient exercise and time away from each other before going back into the coop for bedtime.

My two Cochins(broodies) are the most docile, shy, and reserved of our flock. They tend to stick together too. But you never really know. Gahhhh now I’m undecided!

 

[Shezadandy]

All very thought provoking input!

My partitions weren’t chicken wire, they were a soft landscaping mesh type material that we had laying around… smaller openings than chicken wire, but still. I’ll have to check the opening size!

My coop is off grid, and we don’t have wifi, so sadly I wouldn’t be able to put a baby monitor in there. We run an extension cord up to power our little mama substitute heat plate during brooding, but I don’t want a million cords going up there(and it’s roughly 300 feet from the house). I have two Cochin hens that will likely go broody, but as it’s their first year, their mothering skills are indeed unknown. If I put nesting boxes in the brooding area, do you think I should partition them from each other, or would placing the boxes far enough apart be sufficient? The brooding area is L shaped, so they’d actually be several feet apart.

It’s tough… with a baby of my own on the way, and being uncertain of how my due date and broodiness will line up, it’s really hard to be sure I could supervise them as much as may be needed. I’d probably either have to wait until next year to try this process, or just hope that it all works out and deal with potential losses. It’s funny, for a process that seems like it should be pretty straightforward, it sure does get complicated!! I guess it’s just a gamble. High reward, if the mamas are good mamas and can do the work for you, but high risk to put your trust in a chicken

I’d likely take the Mamas out around the two week mark. By that point, the chicks should have learned food and water habits and could transition under the heater plate. Last year, we were able to integrate the new chicks into the flock pretty fully around 8 weeks. It was surprisingly smooth, having them brooded in coop had the older chickens acclimated to them pretty well. And by that age, they were certainly old enough to scamper away when necessary. We have a large run with plenty of obstacles and hiding opportunities, so that helps. I would also supervise run time for the first few days. One thing that I think helped a lot was letting the older chickens out to free range and leaving the young chickens in the run to get confidence and lay of the land. It seemed to help, as both groups got sufficient exercise and time away from each other before going back into the coop for bedtime.

My two Cochins(broodies) are the most docile, shy, and reserved of our flock. They tend to stick together too. But you never really know. Gahhhh now I’m undecided!

I would partition any broodies from each other until you've had a chance to see how they interact in a bigger area with chicks. And they may not all go broody at once, which is helpful. I watched a friend's chickens (she put her broodies in a horse stall) - 12x12 - the one relentlessly chased the other. The lower hen buried her chicks in the straw trying to keep them out of sight. So... partition. If they turn out to be great coparenting hens once they've both got chicks and you've had lots of time watching them together, terrific... just don't count on it based on current behaviors. Hormones and chicks mean all bets are off for a while.

Now, when you say you'd take the hen out around the two week mark, do you mean when the chicks are two weeks old? I definitely wouldn't even attempt that. Having a separate brooder ready to go in case of a problem is good, but the hens will raise them and tend to their every need until they're ready to wean them. If they get parted before that natural point, you'll have chicks flinging themselves at whatever barrier trying to get back to the hen and very upset hens. The best part of broody hen raising is she will integrate them into the flock, she will teach them where everything is and how to roost. And then they will just grow more distant and become flockmates.

Hmmm... no wifi. How about ... walkie talkies? Chicks that are being pecked and rejected make very distinct noises (shrieks and screams) and ones that have been shoved out from the hen will often make very high pitched peeps because they're cold and scared. When everything is going great you'll hear lots of momma hen noises, soft chirps, maybe the occasional sharp peep. Then at least you'd have a way to monitor. Hens that do well do lots of talking to their eggs as the hatching process starts and the chicks start cheeping in their shells. I'd say the biggest sign of trouble is a very silent and often very stiff hen, especially after a chick hatches. That said, millions of hens manage to do a tremendous job of it and it's beautiful to watch.

 

[Stephanie8806]

I would partition any broodies from each other until you've had a chance to see how they interact in a bigger area with chicks. And they may not all go broody at once, which is helpful. I watched a friend's chickens (she put her broodies in a horse stall) - 12x12 - the one relentlessly chased the other. The lower hen buried her chicks in the straw trying to keep them out of sight. So... partition. If they turn out to be great coparenting hens once they've both got chicks and you've had lots of time watching them together, terrific... just don't count on it based on current behaviors. Hormones and chicks mean all bets are off for a while.

Now, when you say you'd take the hen out around the two week mark, do you mean when the chicks are two weeks old? I definitely wouldn't even attempt that. Having a separate brooder ready to go in case of a problem is good, but the hens will raise them and tend to their every need until they're ready to wean them. If they get parted before that natural point, you'll have chicks flinging themselves at whatever barrier trying to get back to the hen and very upset hens. The best part of broody hen raising is she will integrate them into the flock, she will teach them where everything is and how to roost. And then they will just grow more distant and become flockmates.

Hmmm... no wifi. How about ... walkie talkies? Chicks that are being pecked and rejected make very distinct noises (shrieks and screams) and ones that have been shoved out from the hen will often make very high pitched peeps because they're cold and scared. When everything is going great you'll hear lots of momma hen noises, soft chirps, maybe the occasional sharp peep. Then at least you'd have a way to monitor. Hens that do well do lots of talking to their eggs as the hatching process starts and the chicks start cheeping in their shells. I'd say the biggest sign of trouble is a very silent and often very stiff hen, especially after a chick hatches. That said, millions of hens manage to do a tremendous job of it and it's beautiful to watch.

Great plan for separating Mamas. I’ll remember that for sure! Yes, I was planning on taking the Mama out, but I can definitely see how that’s not good! Sounds like I’d definitely need to think about having an area of the run partitioned so that they have more space than just what I’d partition in the coop.

Walkie talkies are a great idea if I can find battery operated! No wifi, and the coop is off grid. Makes certain things a struggle at times, for sure! Eventually we plan to run a conduit box out to the area, but we’ve got to take care of some other things first. What are your thoughts on hatching and brooding completely separated from the flock? I’ve ready that quarantining a chicken for too long(I.e injury or sickness) from the flock will sort of reset their standing and basically that they can get bullied reentering society… sort of defeats the purpose if Im hoping for her to integrate babies, but having them/her at the house would be the best way to monitor them.

 

[Shezadandy]

Yep, was thinking rechargeable battery operated walkie talkie, (do check to see if you can just listen in on one end - haven't had one in a long long time) not a bad thing to have around anyhow. Seems like they can be had for around $40 for a decent set with rechargeable batteries on amazon)

So with a broody hen, generally by a week to 10 days old, mine are out with the entire flock. I do separate them in their own area at night until around 3-4 weeks, after that they have their choice of where to go and start going out with the flock whenever the door opens. I don't know how big your separate coop area is, mine is about 3ft x 8ft. Once they're ready for outside time, they're all out together as a big flock.

By the time the hen has finished raising them, they won't need any separate heat source, they'll just be youngsters, probably going around together as their own group after mom has weaned them, and one day they start laying (or crowing!).

The broody re-entry is usually the rough patch - she will of course be very worried about keeping the others from her chicks at first. There's usuually a big fight or two - sometimes the broody becomes the big boss, sometimes she's at the low end of the flock, but once they've sorted it out for themselves it's pretty easy, the first reentry is the hardest. Hormones will have her doing things you've never seen that hen do before, so she is sort of a different bird at that point. But this part cannot be helped. During egg incubation, I let mine out once a day with the flock to eat and drink and dust bathe, all the way up to hatch time, so she's kept up face time with the flock.

Keeping her nest exclusive to her will prevent the other problems I talked about a couple posts earlier. So I close the nest to the other birds, let her out with the flock at the same time every day, and then make sure she's come back to her eggs and close her back off.

It's all the social interaction she would have sought on her own- some hens even choose to go off into the woods or under a bush, far from the flock to incubate and hatch, so this isn't something she won't have done naturally anyhow.

Adding something like a Flock Block the first couple of days can greatly improve how things go. Just don't leave it out there 24/7 because the chicks and chickens will jump on top of it, poop and then you have a coccidiosis outbreak with the chicks (yup, did that too). It's meant as a distraction and a treat.

 

[Shezadandy]

Actually my baby monitor isn't WiFi either- the camera only communicates with the "TV" screen for visual and audio. I don't have this one but it's similar. Although this one seems to have a battery powered camera unit based on the description. (mine has to be plugged in, but it is an older model)

https://www.amazon.com/Monitor-bono...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==