How long before they lay?

[chickenjones]

I know I posted a similar posting not too long ago, but I never got a reply so I am trying one more time. On the 11th of this month I saw my conures finally "pairing!" So how long will it be before they actually lay eggs, if they are going to lay eggs? They spend a lot of time in the box and take turns going in and out of it but they also both come out in the morning and evenings. So far no eggs. I think I read in one of my books it could be 14 days before the hen decides to stay in the box. It doesn't say if that is when she lays though. Thanks for any info!

ChickenJones

 

[AquaEyes]

What are you planning to do if you get babies? There are already a lot of conures being churned out by breeders every year. Just adding something to think about.

 

[chickenjones]

Well that was my other issue. They are breeder birds. They were my MIL's. She is not in the business anymore and I didnt want to see them go so I took them. They have been together for years so I didn't want to separate them. They seem to really like/love each other. I would LOVE to have a baby and my MIL has the know-how to help me raise it but I don't even know if they will lay or hatch eggs. They have laid eggs in the past but have always stepped on them before they were discovered.

What happens if you separate them? Won't that be upsetting for them? My only option would be to find the babies I couldn't keep homes, right?

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
Who said you need to separate them? Just remove the nest box if you don't want them to breed. Give them plenty of "out-time" and enrichment, and they'll likely lose interest in breeding. Try treating them as a mated pair of pets rather than "breeder birds" if you don't have cemented plans for what to do with the offspring.



~Chris

 

[chickenjones]

What do they sleep in then? They sleep in their box. They live outdoors- always have. They are not really pets. You can't handle them. They aren't vicious but they aren't friendly. They let me stick my hands in the cage to feed them and change their water. They have picked up a few words and stuff like that. I will have to put some more thought into this. They are not good breeders because they always step on the eggs anyway so maybe I don't have a problem.

 

[Nambroth]

They can learn to roost on perches; if you want to give them a sheltered area just block in two corners of whatever type of cage they are in and put a few nice perches there.

Parrots are very adaptable and while they will probably be upset or protest for a while if they are in the habit of the nesting box, they will be all right.

If they are always subjected to breeding-conditions it is hard on their bodies, long term, to have the hormones going, so discouraging year-round breeding behavior might actually help their long-term health as well.

With time and a lot of patience you can win the trust of a parrot, but only if it is something you want to do and want to commit to. I know a girl that adopted a wild-caught amazon (pre-ban) that had been abused, used as a breeder, and was about the 'meanest' parrot you've ever known, and with time and trust it became the sweetest parrot in her flock.

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
Agreed. And I didn't realize they were housed outdoors. For some reason, I assumed they were living in your house. If she keeps laying eggs, it doesn't matter if they hatch or not -- she's wearing herself out. We have to remember that parrots don't breed like chickens. There are two general "paths of life" that species follow. One is "breed fast and often and have lots of babies, hope a few offspring make it, and die young." This is how chickens breed. Most species of parrots, however, live MUCH longer than other birds the same size, have smaller clutches, might not breed every year, but raise a higher percentage of young successfully. When female parrots are made to crank out multiple clutches per year, every year, you're making them lay the number of eggs they'd lay in their lifetime (which could be 30-40 years) in just a few years. Breeders who do this end up with worn-out birds that may get sold to unsuspecting buyers as "proven breeders". These birds, who then don't produce for their new owners, might simply be put down, or sold again to someone else....eh, don't get me started.

I'm not against breeding at all. I just think that parrots shouldn't be made to breed as though they are chickens. How many homes are out there for birds that live this long? And what happens to the excess? They can't simply be "processed" for food like chickens. They'll just be miserable, for a long time, until they die. And I wonder how many breeders offer a rescue service for these unwanted birds, while they continue to crank out more. Go see www.cockatoorescue.org for one of the unusually AWESOME rescues that I hope to model when I move to Florida. It's sad but true that if I wanted to have aviaries of parrots just for the enjoyment of their company, I can fill them pretty easily with "unwanted pets and retired breeders" at little or no cost at acquisition.

If you want them to breed, have a purpose and goal, and know what you will do with offspring before you have them. Otherwise, just know that there are already a lot of BC (and other species of) conures in shelters, even this many years after the movie "Pauly" came out.

ETA -- I just noticed the bit about your friend's amazon. Sammy, the DYHA on my head in my avatar, was purchased as a 7yo male from a pet store, likely returned when he hit sexual maturity. He was aggressive and fearful for the first month or so (having to give him oral antibiotics three times a day for a few weeks wasn't fun), but soon after and now (he's 20) he's ridiculously bonded to me, follows me around the house and calls me by name when he doesn't see me, and defies belief when I say to parrot people "yes, I have a snuggly mature male DYHA who doesn't have seasonal aggression." Parrots are very smart and very long-lived, so I don't believe any are truly a "lost cause." Congrats to your friend on her new pal.

 

[duckncover]

defies belief when I say to parrot people "yes, I have a snuggly mature male DYHA who doesn't have seasonal aggression." Parrots are very smart and very long-lived, so I don't believe any are truly a "lost cause." Congrats to your friend on her new pal.

Sorry this is off topic but boy to I wish my DYHA wasn't seasonally aggressive. We love him but boy does he get nasty. We don't know how old he is since he's from a parrot rescue but were told maybe around 7 or 8 years old. He never let us cuddle with him and freaks out if he even thinks you're going to touch him but will step up on your hand fine..​

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
Sorry this is off topic but boy to I wish my DYHA wasn't seasonally aggressive. We love him but boy does he get nasty. We don't know how old he is since he's from a parrot rescue but were told maybe around 7 or 8 years old. He never let us cuddle with him and freaks out if he even thinks you're going to touch him but will step up on your hand fine..

Males tend to taper-off in their seasonal aggressiveness after about 7-9 years of age. You can think of that window as being similar to peak "hormone-drive" time in teenage boys. If you want to know how old your bird is, you can try tracing his leg-band ID to the breeder by contacting L&M, the manufacturer of most parrot leg-bands. Their website is here:
http://www.lmbirdlegbands.com/

Contact them and ask for their leg-band tracing form. For a small fee, they will find the breeder who purchased the band on your bird, and reply to you with the breeder's contact information if the breeder chooses to disclose it.

My bird is unusual, as compared to other male amazons, so don't be upset that yours isn't like mine. Some factors contribute to this difference. First, I believe he has bonded to me as his mate. This has positive and negative consequences. On the downside, bonding to me as his mate means he treats anyone else as a threat to "our relationship" and is generally aggressive to them. When birds don't bond to a particular person as their mate, they will likely be more generalized in their affection to people (thus not as aggressive to others as Sammy is, but not as affectionate to anyone as well). This is a better situation when there are multiple people in a household. I live alone (aside from times when I've had roommates over the years, but even then, I was usually the only one interested in interacting with him, anyway), so having a bird bonded to me this way isn't much of a bother.

A second reason is probably because when I purchased him, I had to towel him three times a day to give him medicine to clear a mild infection he had at the time. He struggled and wasn't happy, but by the time his course of antibiotics was completed, I think he was "broken-in" and came to accept me. Behaviorally, his fear of me was extinguished because his struggles were ineffective at getting away from close contact. I also sought to include him in as many of my routines as possible, and rewarded his positive interactions (e.g. sitting near him while I ate, I'd give him a piece of my food when he came to me on his own, and food-sharing is a big deal to amazons).

He didn't turn snuggly immediately, but there was a sharp change from "being afraid" to "willing to be near me" in the course of medicating him. The snuggly part gradually evolved as he learned that it felt good to have his feet rubbed (amazons are big on foot stimulation), and then his belly and face, etc. A good time to increase contact is while your bird is molting and has itchy pin-feathers coming in on his head. They are more receptive to touch then because they can't reach those feathers themselves.

Try to interact with him the way amazons interact with each other. Amazons are rough and rowdy. I'm not advocating hitting a bird by any means, but when amazons interact with other amazons, they will frequently display open-beak threats, growl, lift a foot, etc. as a way to say "ok, enough." When interacting with him, if he starts being aggressive, try raising your hand with your pointer-finger extended to just above his head, open your mouth, and say something like "Hey! No!" If he motions as if to bite, quickly tap his upper beak with that finger, and repeat "Hey! No!" You will be communicating with him in a way he understands.

Also, remember that food is a big thing to amazons, and find what food is his favorite, then don't offer it in his cage. Save it for rewards for positive interaction. When moving near birds, remember that they are prey species, and have a natural aversion (for the most part) to fast, jerky movements. Try to be more fluid. Be observant of what makes him anxious and what doesn't. Amazons are very obvious in their body language.

My basic approach to animal interaction follows one main principle -- humans are the more intelligent species, so it is much more feasible for a human to learn how to behave like the animal than it is for the animal to behave like a human. Interact with your animals the way a "leader" or "dominant" individual of the same species would interact with them. Correct them the way another member of their species would correct them, and reward them with things that species would find rewarding. Use those principles to shape the animals' behaviors.

Good luck.

 

[chickenjones]

Thanks for all the feedback. To put everyone's mind at ease about Alice laying eggs I have this to say. I have had her and Jasper since last August. She lived with my inlaws up until that point- outside. They are seasonal layers at best. I suppose that is because they are living outdoors. I don't keep them in breeding conditions all the time. I guess my question about laying was because I have never seen them act this way and according to my inlaws and books I have bought on Conures, they are pairing and this is a breeding cycle they are in. I just wanted to know when to watch for the eggs so I can take them out of the nest. They were never successful breeders because, being hand fed, they don't seem to have the instinct and they always step on the one clutch they have a year. I am just trying to prepare myself and know what to look for. Thanks again for all the advice. If anyone does know about how long it is from pairing until laying, I would love to know.

Chickenjones